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  • Yes, I expec the same in kind if I partake in aggressive behavior

    17 48.57%
  • No, I believe my gender excuses me from paying consequences

    15 42.86%
  • I don't like either of the above options - here is my answer

    1 2.86%
  • It depends on what aggressive behavior I am taking part in

    2 5.71%
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Thread: Women of DP - I ask you

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    Re: Women of DP - I ask you

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    A lady would not initiate physical violence.
    Being a lady is overrated anyway. In all seriousness, though...I've had people initiate conflicts with me. I have never sought out a fight, but if someone wants to go there bad enough, I likely would throw down...in explanation, I live in a college town with a lot of stupid drunk young girls who behave badly and expect not to be called on it. I've had a couple of instances (at local shows) where girls have attempted to initiate a fight with me. I was able to give them good verbal reasons not to, but there is a time and a place to stand your grown (even if you're female).

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    Re: Women of DP - I ask you

    I live in a college town with a lot of stupid drunk young girls
    I am so there.

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    Re: Women of DP - I ask you

    Any female "man" enough to throw a punch is "man" enough to take one.

    I am all for equality. If a women were to hit or shove me, I'd be just as likely to hit or shove her back as I would if she were a man.

    Although I generally prefer to verbally abuse and insult them until their cuckholded husbands are forced to assault me to defend their "honor" at which time I proceed to administer a severe beating to said cuckhold.
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    Re: Women of DP - I ask you

    Another way to look at it is that if you were able to see 1,000 random incidents of a man hitting a woman, how many of them do you think you would think the man was justified? 10? 1? None? But presumably in most of those situations the jackass guy thinks he is justified. So, should we really be sitting around trying to come up with rationalizations for hitting women or should we be trying to squash rationalizations people use to justify abuse?

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    Re: Women of DP - I ask you

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Another way to look at it is that if you were able to see 1,000 random incidents of a man hitting a woman, how many of them do you think you would think the man was justified? 10? 1? None? But presumably in most of those situations the jackass guy thinks he is justified. So, should we really be sitting around trying to come up with rationalizations for hitting women or should we be trying to squash rationalizations people use to justify abuse?
    No one here is trying to justify abuse. We are all different and have different levels of tolerance.

    They are simply saying if you are a woman, don't use violence as that will beget more violence in some instances. So respect your partner and don't take a chance and then try to use sex as a shield.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 10-28-10 at 07:25 PM.
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    Re: Women of DP - I ask you

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Another way to look at it is that if you were able to see 1,000 random incidents of a man hitting a woman, how many of them do you think you would think the man was justified? 10? 1? None? But presumably in most of those situations the jackass guy thinks he is justified. So, should we really be sitting around trying to come up with rationalizations for hitting women or should we be trying to squash rationalizations people use to justify abuse?
    At Catz and I have both asserted, having worked with CDV cases, many of these instances of "abuse" of women by men, are actually men reacting to abuse of them by the female. I said at least a third, Catz' said 70%. Her figure is probably closer.

    Now, I'm not saying that a man is "justified" to break a woman's face in response to being screamed at and slapped a couple times, BUT I think it is self-evident that a woman who hits a man FIRST is not only a contributor to the abuse she recieved, she is in fact an abuser herself.

    Until a certain segment of the population recognizes this fact and takes ownership of it, domestic abuse will remain problematic.

    Now, in those cases where a man just beats on a woman for no reason, I favor substantial punishment. However, if the man was acting in response to physical assault on his person, he could argue self-defense in some cases, or certainly provocation and harassment... I'd think this should lessen the punishment he suffers if proven to be so.

    Let me give you an example...

    It would be arguably LEGAL for me to go to a Biker Bar at 3AM, stand up in the middle of the room, and shout "HARLEY DAVIDSON SUCKS!".

    I'd also be lucky if I got out of there alive. I pretty definitely wouldn't escape without getting my ass beat good.

    Did I have a legal right to say that? Sure. Did they have a legal right to physically batter me for expressing my opinion? No.

    That doesn't change the facts that 1. I asked for it, and 2. I should have known better, therefore it was at least partially my fault that it happened.


    When a woman screams at a man for half an hour, then punches or kicks him or slaps him repeatedly, she ought to know she has exceeded acceptible behavior, has crossed the line into abuse in her own right, and is willfully putting herself in a situation where she is likely to be beaten up.
    Last edited by Goshin; 10-28-10 at 08:19 PM.

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    Re: Women of DP - I ask you

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil
    Another way to look at it is that if you were able to see 1,000 random incidents of a man hitting a woman, how many of them do you think you would think the man was justified? 10? 1? None? But presumably in most of those situations the jackass guy thinks he is justified. So, should we really be sitting around trying to come up with rationalizations for hitting women or should we be trying to squash rationalizations people use to justify abuse?
    By your standpoint, abuse is a one-way street - a situation where the man is the initial and supreme aggressor and the woman is the victim.

    The point of the thread was made with microcosmic hypotheticals in mind.

    You seem to be assuming that every time a man hits a woman, it's because he's just a pissed-off individual who decides to take his aggressions out on a docile woman minding her own. Maybe that's how it happens in la-la land, but out here in the real world it's simply not like that, bub.

    I'm thinking your environment may be a cause, as you're from a city where the women typically wear the penis and vice-versa.

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    Re: Women of DP - I ask you

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    By your standpoint, abuse is a one-way street - a situation where the man is the initial and supreme aggressor and the woman is the victim.

    The point of the thread was made with microcosmic hypotheticals in mind.

    You seem to be assuming that every time a man hits a woman, it's because he's just a pissed-off individual who decides to take his aggressions out on a docile woman minding her own. Maybe that's how it happens in la-la land, but out here in the real world it's simply not like that, bub.
    My point is that the use of hyoptheticals to justify hitting women is a dangerous path. Sure, some chicks are totally crazy, or totally mean, just like dudes. But, most often the dude is not justified in hitting the woman pretty much no matter what she does short of bringing out a weapon because a guy getting hit by a woman and a woman getting hit by a guy typically just aren't proportionate. Guys tend to be a lot stronger, a lot bigger, and a lot more durable. So, if we focus on this hypothetical (which I agree with in the abstract)- that a guy who is seriously threatened physically by a woman and who responds proportionally with reasonable force, that is justified, what we're really doing it just building up a pretty fuzzy standard that people who are not reasonable, who are not accurately calculating a proportional response, etc, will use to rationalize abuse.

    It's like anything else. If you go out of town for the weekend and leave your kids at home, if you tell them- "ok, you can have people over, but only one friend at a time, and everybody has to go home by 10pm", what happens? They have a party with 50 people, a keg, and the house gets smashed up. So, if you really want them to just have one friend over for a few hours at most while you're gone, what do you tell them? You tell them that they absolutely can't have anybody over for any reason.

    Same deal with this. If you go around listing off situations where it is ok for a guy to hit a woman, you just end up with more people systematically abusing their wives and girlfriends or responding to a slap with a 2 by 4 to the head and whatnot. Better to set the rule to "you don't hit women ever", and in the unusual circumstances where there really is a justifiable exception, they can explain themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I'm thinking your environment may be a cause, as you're from a city where the women typically wear the penis and vice-versa.
    Yes, yes... And you're from a state where everybody marries their own sister... Lame sterotypes are dumb.

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    Re: Women of DP - I ask you

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    My point is that the use of hyoptheticals to justify hitting women is a dangerous path. .
    It's not a hypothetical. If a woman hits a man, she's opened the door to physical aggression, and may well get her ass kicked. Thems the risks.

    Frankly, the same holds true for hitting me. You throw a punch at me, it's going to the mattress, and I don't care if you're female or male. My ex-husband can probably provide some clarity on that one.

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    Re: Women of DP - I ask you

    There is a ton of research on the role of women in domestic violence. It's far from as cut and dried as some would like to believe:

    http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawr.../304/kelly.pdf

    Over the last twenty-five years, leading sociologists have repeatedly found that men and women commit violence at similar rates. The 1977 assertion that “the phenomenon of husband battering”6 is as prevalent as wife abuse is confirmed by nationally representative studies, such as the Family Violence Surveys, as well as by numerous other sources.7 However, despite the wealth and diversity of the sociological research and the consistency of the findings, female violence is not recognized within the extensive legal literature on domestic violence. Instead, the literature consistently suggests that only men commit domestic violence. Either explicitly, or more often implicitly, through the failure to address the subject in any objective manner, female violence is denied, defended and minimized.
    My view is based on data. What's yours based on, Teamosil?
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 10-29-10 at 01:05 AM.

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