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Mandatory military service?

Would you support a mandatory service when a person turns 21 or 18?

  • Total voters
    88
From my personal experience, seeing how much in dissaray many in the reserves are in general, mandatory service would only add to this problem.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
From my personal experience, seeing how much in dissaray many in the reserves are in general, mandatory service would only add to this problem.
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It varies from branch to branch and unit to unit. My particular unit, when activated in 1991 to serve a 1-year tour in Saudi, were a bit "rough" at first but ended up getting commendation medals for meritorious service. I think the training experience, in and of itself would be good for most. :shrug:
 
phattonez said:
My country is supposed to be the bastion of freedom. Conscription is slavery, and antithetical to the supposed ideals of this country.
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Actually, your country is a constitutional republic. Requiring the citizens to serve that republic, in some form (Americorps/Peace Corps/Military Corps) is not at all antithetical to a republic. There are numerous examples of constitutional republics with mandatory public service for young adults. Israel is but one example.

Furthermore, freedom isn't free. It comes at a cost. Your insistence that other people should pay that cost, lest you break a fingernail, is pretty repugnant.

The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed, from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

-Thomas Jefferson (he's the dude who wrote the Declaration of Independence)
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Civics 101 should be required for all Americans, as well.
 
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TurtleDude said:
that's not true--with a volunteer army, generals are far less apt to waste men than with conscripts
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That could be argued. However, generals work for the overall population. If anyone's kid can get drafted, there's going to be a huge public backlash against undue troop losses (i.e., the 1970s).
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
Actually, your country is a constitutional republic. Requiring the citizens to serve that republic, in some form (Americorps/Peace Corps/Military Corps) is not at all antithetical to a republic.

Civics 101 should be required for all Americans, as well.
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Civics should be continually taught in the currently most effective teaching format, the Reality Show....
 
UtahBill said:
Civics should be continually taught in the current most effective teaching format, the Reality Show....
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I'd like to teach it, bro. People would learn it thoroughly. You can be my teaching assistant, however. ;)
 
FluffyNinja said:
It varies from branch to branch and unit to unit. My particular unit, when activated in 1991 to serve a 1-year tour in Saudi, were a bit "rough" at first but ended up getting commendation medals for meritorious service. I think the training experience, in and of itself would be good for most. :shrug:
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I've seen some put together reserve units, I've also seen many many of them down right scary. These folks "want to be there". if it was mandatory I don't see it being any better than the worse we have now. no thanks.


I was in saudi, kuwait, southern Iraq back in 91. ;)
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
I've seen some put together reserve units, I've also seen many many of them down right scary. These folks "want to be there". if it was mandatory I don't see it being any better than the worse we have now. no thanks.


I was in saudi, kuwait, southern Iraq back in 91. ;)
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Well I'll be damned! What was your AFSC and where in Saudi were you? I was about 8 months in Khafji at a Air Evac Center and 3 months out in the desert near Rafhah attached to the 101st Air Assault. I was a 91Bravo - Combat Medic.
 
FluffyNinja said:
Well I'll be damned! What was your AFSC and where in Saudi were you? I was about 8 months in Khafji at a Air Evac Center and 3 months out in the desert near Rafhah attached to the 101st Air Assault. I was a 91Bravo - Combat Medic.
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1c451, Al Kharj/prince sultan.
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
That could be argued. However, generals work for the overall population. If anyone's kid can get drafted, there's going to be a huge public backlash against undue troop losses (i.e., the 1970s).
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Maybe now, but at the end of WWI, Gen. Pershing should have been charged with murder, of his own troops. With the armistice signing only hours away, and MOST troops standing down, Pershing ordered attacks against German lines. A few senior officers ignored his orders, not willing to sacrifice their men for nothing. There was a history channel show going around about it. Congress wanted to nail him for it, but it was deemed to be too controversial at the time, so it was swept under the rug.
Besides, Pershing tried to lay the blame of Foch...
google "pershing, armistice day". The first 2 sites are enough. The second refers to a book on the situation.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
1c451, Al Kharj/prince sultan.
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Yep. Good times man. I think back to how bad I thought things were for us during Desert Storm while I was there, then I look at the mess our troops have been mixed up in for the last 7 years and I'm thinkin', hell I had it made on my tour. My little bro just finished his third tour in the MidEast in the past 5 years (2 in Iraq, last one in the Stan)
 
FluffyNinja said:
Yep. Good times man. I think back to how bad I thought things were for us during Desert Storm while I was there, then I look at the mess our troops have been mixed up in for the last 7 years and I'm thinkin', hell I had it made on my tour. My little bro just finished his third tour in the MidEast in the past 5 years (2 in Iraq, last one in the Stan)
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That can't be fun. I hung out in the AF for till 1998, got bored, then signed up with a contractor, well before it was cool. I don't envy the boys today.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Actually, your country is a constitutional republic. Requiring the citizens to serve that republic, in some form (Americorps/Peace Corps/Military Corps) is not at all antithetical to a republic. There are numerous examples of constitutional republics with mandatory public service for young adults. Israel is but one example.
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This does not answer the contention that forced labor is slavery.

Furthermore, freedom isn't free. It comes at a cost. Your insistence that other people should pay that cost, lest you break a fingernail, is pretty repugnant.
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Freedom requires slavery? Sounds odd, huh?

Civics 101 should be required for all Americans, as well.
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That's quote is about a right of rebellion, not about a right to a draft!
 
FluffyNinja said:
Then by your definition of slavery, the Compulsory School Attendance law is also slavery, right?
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Are children fully independent individuals? No. That said, I do have great qualms about children being forced to go to school. But the situation is a little different because this is about children and not adults.
 
It appears that America has already had its one and only "greatest generation" and most of us who now enjoy the freedom and opportunities that they provided for us don't want to acknowledge their sacrifice, or be deserving of it.
 
UtahBill said:
It appears that America has already had its one and only "greatest generation" and most of us who now enjoy the freedom and opportunities that they provided for us don't want to acknowledge their sacrifice, or be deserving of it.
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Who isn't acknowleding that?!
 
Taboon said:
Depends on how strong the military is. If it's stronger than it needs to be than it is wasteful. There are no blank checks when the revenues that support the services could possibly used for better purposes elsewhere. Defense is essential but to what extent it is used is another story.
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Same goes for entitlements, right?
 
phattonez said:
This does not answer the contention that forced labor is slavery.
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It isn't slavery if you get paid for it. Also...hyperbole much?

Freedom requires slavery? Sounds odd, huh?
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Only because you're creating your own personal strawman.


That's quote is about a right of rebellion, not about a right to a draft!
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The quote speaks to the ongoing need to protect freedom.
 
phattonez said:
Are children fully independent individuals? No. That said, I do have great qualms about children being forced to go to school. But the situation is a little different because this is about children and not adults.
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So now you're saying that freedoms (of which "your country" is a "bastion" and which are guaranteed by the Constitution) do not apply to minors? So you must be "fully independent" in order to enjoy these "freedoms" ? Where is that written? :thinking:
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
It isn't slavery if you get paid for it. Also...hyperbole much?
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Nice. I'll go find some hobo off the street, force him to clean my dishes at gunpoint, and then give him a dollar for it. That's not slavery, afterall.

Only because you're creating your own personal strawman.
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What strawman, I merely rephrased what he said.

The quote speaks to the ongoing need to protect freedom.
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Would Jefferson have seen slavery itself as tyranny (at least for a white man)?
 
FluffyNinja said:
So now you're saying that freedoms (of which "your country" is a "bastion" and which are guaranteed by the Constitution) do not apply to minors? So you must be "fully independent" in order to enjoy these "freedoms" ? Where is that written? :thinking:
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As I alluded to before, my mind is not completely made up about that specific subject.
 
phattonez said:
Nice. I'll go find some hobo off the street, force him to clean my dishes at gunpoint, and then give him a dollar for it. That's not slavery, afterall.



What strawman, I merely rephrased what he said.



Would Jefferson have seen slavery itself as tyranny (at least for a white man)?
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IIRC, from my history books and classes, he had misgivings about it. But in those days, it was the norm, and pretty much required if you had a large farm.
Machinery did away with the need for slaves.
Today, technology can do away with a lot of our need for warriors. If we change our ways of fighting, we can downsize our ground troop requirements a lot.
 
C-21 Cowboy said:
Not everyone is suited for military service; so my answer is I don't support mandatory service.
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At the same time, tho, the military cuts its own throat by not allowing minor handicapped people to volunteer....
A good friend wanted to join the Army during the Korean war, AFTER paying his own way thru 2 years of auto mechanics school. He was near sighted, so they said no. Another friend, recent college graduate in engineering, was told he could enlist but could not be an officer, for slight color blindness.

There are thousands of jobs that can be done in the rear echelon by people with minor handicaps, and we tell them no. It is stupid.
 
UtahBill said:
At the same time, tho, the military cuts its own throat by not allowing minor handicapped people to volunteer....
A good friend wanted to join the Army during the Korean war, AFTER paying his own way thru 2 years of auto mechanics school. He was near sighted, so they said no. Another friend, recent college graduate in engineering, was told he could enlist but could not be an officer, for slight color blindness.

There are thousands of jobs that can be done in the rear echelon by people with minor handicaps, and we tell them no. It is stupid.
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dude...the recruiter that signed up my daughter was missing 2 fingers on his left hand and they had still let him in. these days you have to be almost legally blind to be disqualified and I have never heard of anyone being denied a commission due to color blindness. They didn't even ask me about it when I applied for commission and it hasn't been a part of the eye test for the last 5-6 years. there are a few jobs they won't let you do if you are colorblind.
 
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