View Poll Results: Would you support a mandatory service when a person turns 21 or 18?

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Thread: Mandatory military service?

  1. #71
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If everyone has to do an equal term of involuntary servitude then everyone should pay an equal amount of taxes. If you expect some to pay more than others, than those who don't pay as much ought to give more in terms of service.
    Yeah, because it's not like there are a disproportionate number of poor people serving the military...

  2. #72
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Would you support a mandatory service when a person turns 21 or 18?
    Neither. I want our military to remain voluntary. I don't know about you, but I were of enlistment age and the country went to war, I wouldn't want some pissed off draftee in a foxhole, with a gun, next to me.
    Fool me once, shame on you.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Yeah, because it's not like there are a disproportionate number of poor people serving the military...
    actually its mainly middle class people. the real poor kids rarely can meet the standards. THere have been more than a couple dozen KIA's from the cincinnati area. one, the highest ranking KIA (a colonel whose helicopter was set up for an attack by a spy) was the cousin of one of my best friends. Another, a marine, was the cousin of girls I coached. but the bottom line, none of them came from the poorest areas of the greater cincinnati area-several came from top rated public schools in rather prosperous areas. now maybe the poor kids from cincinnati who served aren't getting killed but I pay close attention to those from my area who are killed (the most famous-other than that colonel was Matt Maupin, the guy who was MIA for several years) and its not the poor kids who are dying



  4. #74
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If everyone has to do an equal term of involuntary servitude then everyone should pay an equal amount of taxes. If you expect some to pay more than others, than those who don't pay as much ought to give more in terms of service.

    after all, righ now more than a third of my time in my office is servitude for the government. yet many do almost no work that is taken in taxes for the state

    I've disputed with you on this before, TD. Income taxes are only one form of tax; there remain property taxes, SS/medicare taxes, sales tax, and increased costs to various goods due to corporate/value-added taxes, including on such essentials as food and fuel (those necessities usually take up more of the budget of lower-income persons than higher-income persons, btw).

    Practically everyone pays taxes. Only a relative few actually recieve more in benefits than they pay in taxes. Focusing on income taxes alone does not give a complete picture of how things work.

    The problem I have with flat tax, is you can't come up with a flat tax rate that would support current government spending that wouldn't drive the less-prosperous 1/3rd of the population into bankruptcy. Even if you cut the current budget by an enormous amount, say 30% (and that is probably unrealistic anytime soon), you'd still end up with a flat tax rate that a quarter of the population could not pay, not without losing their home or having nothing to eat but boiled rat.

    Pardon me, too much thread drift probably...

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  5. #75
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I've disputed with you on this before, TD. Income taxes are only one form of tax; there remain property taxes, SS/medicare taxes, sales tax, and increased costs to various goods due to corporate/value-added taxes, including on such essentials as food and fuel (those necessities usually take up more of the budget of lower-income persons than higher-income persons, btw).

    Practically everyone pays taxes. Only a relative few actually recieve more in benefits than they pay in taxes. Focusing on income taxes alone does not give a complete picture of how things work.

    The problem I have with flat tax, is you can't come up with a flat tax rate that would support current government spending that wouldn't drive the less-prosperous 1/3rd of the population into bankruptcy. Even if you cut the current budget by an enormous amount, say 30% (and that is probably unrealistic anytime soon), you'd still end up with a flat tax rate that a quarter of the population could not pay, not without losing their home or having nothing to eat but boiled rat.

    Pardon me, too much thread drift probably...
    do you admit or deny that the current system promotes a scenario where politicians buy the votes of the many by promising them that "others" will bear the burden of paying for the increased spending?

    and its income taxes that serve as the basis of most of the political discussion.

    right now its a house of cards that is gonna collapse and the only way to stop that is to make increased government spending painful for everyone, not just the 2% who cannot outvote the people who continue to enable expansion of the government



  6. #76
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    do you admit or deny that the current system promotes a scenario where politicians buy the votes of the many by promising them that "others" will bear the burden of paying for the increased spending?

    and its income taxes that serve as the basis of most of the political discussion.

    right now its a house of cards that is gonna collapse and the only way to stop that is to make increased government spending painful for everyone, not just the 2% who cannot outvote the people who continue to enable expansion of the government

    I don't deny that we're in trouble, and that part of the reason is how taxes are handled. It isn't the only part though... spending is the other half. The way we allow politicians to spend other people's money to buy votes through pork and special-intrest subsidy is at least half the issue.

    Progressive tax has the problem of people carrying unequal burdens of the cost of government and public works.
    Flat tax has the problem that it will impact the ability of the not-so-prosperous to even survive, if the rate is set high enough to support the kind of government spending that has been going on for most of a century, or even half that much.... and the kind of budget cuts (30-60%) that would make a flat tax a bearable burden by the poor are probably just not realistic.... I mean, there's no reason to believe it is actually going to happen.


    Denying franchise to those whose tax burden is only 5 or 10%, and that mostly from property tax, sales tax, SS/MC tax, would be no way of handling it either. They're still paying taxes, even if it isn't income tax.
    Last edited by Goshin; 10-27-10 at 12:12 AM.

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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I don't deny that we're in trouble, and that part of the reason is how taxes are handled. It isn't the only part though... spending is the other half. The way we allow politicians to spend other people's money to buy votes through pork and special-intrest subsidy is at least half the issue.

    Progressive tax has the problem of people carrying unequal burdens of the cost of government and public works.
    Flat tax has the problem that it will impact the ability of the not-so-prosperous to even survive, if the rate is set high enough to support the kind of government spending that has been going on for most of a century, or even half that much.... and the kind of budget cuts (30-60%) that would make a flat tax a bearable burden by the poor are probably just not realistic.... I mean, there's no reason to believe it is actually going to happen.
    which one ultimately destroys society? not the flat tax-



  8. #78
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Hell no. As far as I am concerned having to get my draft card at 18 is good enough.

  9. #79
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    which one ultimately destroys society? not the flat tax-
    LoLz. "destroys society"...Don't hold back on that over the top rhetoric.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  10. #80
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    LoLz. "destroys society"...Don't hold back on that over the top rhetoric.
    you deny that the current system is suggesting anything else?



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