View Poll Results: Would you support a mandatory service when a person turns 21 or 18?

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Thread: Mandatory military service?

  1. #201
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    dude...the recruiter that signed up my daughter was missing 2 fingers on his left hand and they had still let him in. these days you have to be almost legally blind to be disqualified and I have never heard of anyone being denied a commission due to color blindness. They didn't even ask me about it when I applied for commission and it hasn't been a part of the eye test for the last 5-6 years. there are a few jobs they won't let you do if you are colorblind.
    Things have changed since I enlisted, in fact, they aren't pushing out the pudgies anymore....
    But how about someone in a wheelchair? Will they take that person, even if he/she can fly a desk as well as anyone else?
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  2. #202
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    That could be argued. However, generals work for the overall population. If anyone's kid can get drafted, there's going to be a huge public backlash against undue troop losses (i.e., the 1970s).
    modern military requirements favor long term soldiers due to the complex nature of the task. conscripts don't fit that role well and if you waste too many volunteers, people will stop volunteering. when the volunteer army was discussed the arguments went like this

    1) in favor of a volunteer army

    a) more motivated soldiers
    b) better trained soldiers
    c) no public issues with a draft
    d) leaders are more careful of using soldiers in risky operations

    2) in favor of a draft

    a) social engineering (ie making rich and poor serve together is good for society)
    b) don't have to worry about sufficient numbers
    c) "fairness"

    I sure don't recall claims that a conscript army causes generals or leaders to be more careful



  3. #203
    Educator Compatibilist's Avatar
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by C-21 Cowboy View Post
    Not everyone is suited for military service; so my answer is I don't support mandatory service.
    Unsure what you mean by "not suited"... but if someone can't [legitimately] make it thru basic training, they are discharged. Anyway, thats how it used to be... Also the physical/mental exam is fairly thorough.

  4. #204
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Things have changed since I enlisted, in fact, they aren't pushing out the pudgies anymore....
    But how about someone in a wheelchair? Will they take that person, even if he/she can fly a desk as well as anyone else?
    yeah things have changed. they don't even have to pass a PT test in order to graduate basic anymore.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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  5. #205
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    IIRC, from my history books and classes, he had misgivings about it. But in those days, it was the norm, and pretty much required if you had a large farm.
    Machinery did away with the need for slaves.
    Today, technology can do away with a lot of our need for warriors. If we change our ways of fighting, we can downsize our ground troop requirements a lot.
    It's why I said white slavery, because he obviously was okay with it for blacks.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
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  6. #206
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    modern military requirements favor long term soldiers due to the complex nature of the task. conscripts don't fit that role well and if you waste too many volunteers, people will stop volunteering. when the volunteer army was discussed the arguments went like this

    1) in favor of a volunteer army

    a) more motivated soldiers
    b) better trained soldiers
    c) no public issues with a draft
    d) leaders are more careful of using soldiers in risky operations
    There were no moral issues raised against the draft?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  7. #207
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    There were no moral issues raised against the draft?
    sure there are-I was listing the ones raised by the talking heads who are often interviewed on such matters such as generals and politicians Public issues with a draft incorporates t hose who oppose a draft for moral reasons or liberty issues



  8. #208
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    It's why I said white slavery, because he obviously was okay with it for blacks.
    Can a person voluntarily enter into a state of slavery? If so, is your argument that ALL members of the military are slaves? In order to fit the legal definition of a "slave", one must be "bound in servitude as the property of a person" (The Legal Dictionary).

    Next question.......do draftees receive all of the same benefits and opportunities through their military service that volunteers do? (YES) (Please keep in mind before you answer, that my own father was drafted in 1969 and continued to reenlist for 23 more years - he chose to make a career of it - willingly). In order for your argument to be valid you must indeed show evidence that ALL military service fulfills the definition of "slavery". Are you willing or able to do that? BTW, I also voluntarily joined and during my 10 years of service, even the one year I was ordered to Active Duty, I never lost my freedom of will or choice. I simply CHOSE to take the oath and follow orders - I could have chosen not to......it probably would have simply resulted in a dishonorable discharge.....with my freedom still intact.
    Last edited by FluffyNinja; 11-05-10 at 11:47 PM.
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  9. #209
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Can a person voluntarily enter into a state of slavery? If so, is your argument that ALL members of the military are slaves? In order to fit the legal definition of a "slave", one must be "bound in servitude as the property of a person" (The Legal Dictionary).


    Next question.......do draftees receive all of the same benefits and opportunities through their military service that volunteers do? (YES) (Please keep in mind before you answer, that my own father was drafted in 1969 and continued to reenlist for 23 more years - he chose to make a career of it - willingly). In order for your argument to be valid you must indeed show evidence that ALL military service fulfills the definition of "slavery". Are you willing or able to do that? BTW, I also voluntarily joined and during my 10 years of service, even the one year I was ordered to Active Duty, I never lost my freedom of will or choice. I simply CHOSE to take the oath and follow orders - I could have chosen not to......it probably would have simply resulted in a dishonorable discharge.....with my freedom still intact.
    The entire point of his argument is that conscription is slavery, because conscripts are forced to work involuntarily. I don't see how this applies to volunteers, because of conditions. How well you're treated has nothing to do with slavery. In the Antebellum South many slaves had living conditions surpassing that of many Whites, but they were still slaves.
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  10. #210
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    Re: Mandatory military service?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    The entire point of his argument is that conscription is slavery, because conscripts are forced to work involuntarily. I don't see how this applies to volunteers, because of conditions. How well you're treated has nothing to do with slavery. In the Antebellum South many slaves had living conditions surpassing that of many Whites, but they were still slaves.
    The question is not "were you drafted or did you volunteer", it's simply "Does serving in the US Military, in and of itself, fit the definition of slavery?" Does it involve being "owned" or "becoming the property" of another person? Does it involve being stripped of you legal rights as a citizen and being reduced to nothing more than "property"? My answer is no........those serving in the military whether conscripted or voluntarily, have full citizenship rights and even the right of legal recourse within the institution. The office of Adjutant General was created for a reason.

    Also, taking your view into consideration, are sequestered jury members being subjected to slavery as well? What about jury members who aren't sequestered? Jury members are forced to "work involuntarily" as well, are they not? If you choose to argue that this is simply "civic duty", wouldn't military service qualify as well? :
    Last edited by FluffyNinja; 11-06-10 at 02:55 AM.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

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