View Poll Results: What do you think of the WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange

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  • War Criminal against US

    14 32.56%
  • Humanitarian

    3 6.98%
  • Unsure but irrelevant I believe WikiLeaks motivation is justice

    14 32.56%
  • He is a spy trying to put Americans in harms way

    6 13.95%
  • I have no opinion

    6 13.95%
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Thread: Julian Assange

  1. #21
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    Re: Julian Assange

    Assange mishandled that interview but Wikileaks represents an earnest effort to get the truth out. The recent revelations are that the U.S. military knowingly misled us as to the level of civilian Iraqi casualties and overall level of violence at critical stages of the insurrection there.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  2. #22
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    Re: Julian Assange

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Personally, I think that any individual who can get such a strong reaction from the Federal government without resorting to violence gets a thumbs-up from me. My instinct to get behind any expression of outrage by the feebs is long dead, and they've long since lost any claim to any kind of moral authority as far as I'm concerned.
    The Rosenbergs got a strong reaction from the Federal Government, too. Do you give them a thumbsup, as well?

    You can argue until you're blue in the face that what this guy did is illegal, except that there are enough vaguely-written Federal laws that lots of innocuous / morally sound practices can classified as illegal.

    You can run around in circles and howl about the troops, and then you can bite me. If you strap on your country's uniform, pick up a gun, and step onto a transport, guess what -- it's gonna be dangerous, you might die, and that's just part of your job. I don't want our troops dead, I'd prefer they all came home safe and mentally sound, but I can hardly take it personally when someone else beats them to the punch.

    If you can't accept that, don't sign up, not even in peacetime.

    Treason? Treason against what, an abstract concept embodied by a metric ****ton of selfish pricks that don't give a **** about you personally, who work constantly to increase their authority over your life and erode your rights, who take your money and use it to buy votes, campaign dollars, and favors from powerful people?

    Really? I'm supposed to get upset because someone made THAT bunch of assholes angry? Or because being a soldier continues to be a risky, thankless job?

    When the feebs are less interested in collecting scalps or taking bribes and more interested in actually being public servants, I'll reconsider my position.
    Well spoken, for someone who never put on the uniform.
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #23
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    Re: Julian Assange

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Assange mishandled that interview but Wikileaks represents an earnest effort to get the truth out. The recent revelations are that the U.S. military knowingly misled us as to the level of civilian Iraqi casualties and overall level of violence at critical stages of the insurrection there.
    Assange has no other motive, than to undermine the United States. He's admitted that.

    It's sickneing that anyone would defend this bastard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #24
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    Re: Julian Assange

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I really think you have to be careful about sweeping all "classified" information into the same bucket. The government classifies all sorts of stuff that isn't particularly mission-critical but could prove to be embarrassing.

    If Wikileaks was reporting troop movements, or counts, or plans for upcoming attacks, target lists and the like, I'd be angry and want it shut the hell down.

    If Wikileaks is publishing stuff that embarrasses the military and could piss people off who would otherwise be helpful, too ****ing bad. The truth will out, and if you don't want the truth to embarrass you at the wrong moment then don't do something embarrassing.
    Yea, but who decides which category each document falls into?

    This is the fatal flaw with all of the arguments in support of what wikileaks does. It sounds all patriotic and free speechey to say that the government shouldn't be allowed to censor things that are merely embarrassing, but it's not possible to have a system that would only do that. In a system where places like wikileaks exist, the judgment call about what is or is not important to the state is no longer being made by high ranking officials with access to all the relevant information, but by individual hackers and foreign nationals will varied motives and interests. I might have my doubts about whether the government is always acting in my best interest, but I certainly trust them a ****load more than some random dude in Australia or Bolivia.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  5. #25
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    Re: Julian Assange

    Side note: Imagine that instead of being a white Australian, Assange was from Syria, Venezuela, or China. Do you think people's opinions of wikileaks would be different?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  6. #26
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    Re: Julian Assange

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Rosenbergs got a strong reaction from the Federal Government, too. Do you give them a thumbsup, as well?
    I believe I addressed this a post or two ago.

    Why is it that when someone disagrees with you, a reference to socialism or communism is the best comeback you've got?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Well spoken, for someone who never put on the uniform.
    Why, thank you! That's the nicest thing anybody's said to me all day.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  7. #27
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    Re: Julian Assange

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Yea, but who decides which category each document falls into?

    This is the fatal flaw with all of the arguments in support of what wikileaks does. It sounds all patriotic and free speechey to say that the government shouldn't be allowed to censor things that are merely embarrassing, but it's not possible to have a system that would only do that. In a system where places like wikileaks exist, the judgment call about what is or is not important to the state is no longer being made by high ranking officials with access to all the relevant information, but by individual hackers and foreign nationals will varied motives and interests. I might have my doubts about whether the government is always acting in my best interest, but I certainly trust them a ****load more than some random dude in Australia or Bolivia.
    I totally agree with you.

    I think that the use of classification, like many of the authorities that the many-headed hydra that is our government wields like a cudgel, is in need of reform.

    Failing that, in the mean time, if Wikileaks broke the law it broke the law, and any participant on American soil or in lawful American custody should be tried and punished accordingly.

    That said, I'm rooting for him.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  8. #28
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    Re: Julian Assange

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Side note: Imagine that instead of being a white Australian, Assange was from Syria, Venezuela, or China. Do you think people's opinions of wikileaks would be different?
    Mine wouldn't, if he was doing exactly the same thing.

    At the same time, I don't think those Americans with access would be quite so quick to submit material.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #29
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    Re: Julian Assange

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I think what most people calling him an asshole haven't realized is that Assange's work has brought attention to issues which the world wouldn't care about. He's revealed the killings carried out by the U.S. funded governments. Most people on the left didn't complain when he released information on the cult of scientology and the names of members in the NBP. Most right wing people on this forum didn't really complain when he released those e-mails between the climatologists or the nuclear accident in Iran. Are we all supposed to complain because he's released something some people may disagree with? This man should be held up as a patriot in the fight against global censorship.
    Government classified documents are classified for a reason. Whether any particular document should be classified can be debated, but just mass releasing them is not an acceptable way to handle that disagreement. I disapproved of the war in Iraq. Alot of the documents coming out show I was right in my disapproval. However, they should not have been released like this. There is a system in place to unclassified documents, and that system should be used. If you don't like the system, work to change it. Random people taking it on themselves to decide what should and should not be classified is not acceptable.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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  10. #30
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    Re: Julian Assange

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I totally agree with you.

    I think that the use of classification, like many of the authorities that the many-headed hydra that is our government wields like a cudgel, is in need of reform.

    Failing that, in the mean time, if Wikileaks broke the law it broke the law, and any participant on American soil or in lawful American custody should be tried and punished accordingly.

    That said, I'm rooting for him.
    I just don't see why you would be rooting for him. I mean, I understand the appeal of fighting censorship, but this is far beyond that. At any point, Assange or anyone else could decide to start releasing everything they come across, regardless of whether it's "merely embarassing" or actually dangerous to the country. You're placing your faith in the good judgment and reasonableness of a paranoid nutjob with delusions of grandeur.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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