View Poll Results: Would you support a flat tax system instead of our current progressive one?

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  • Yes

    38 54.29%
  • No

    23 32.86%
  • Maybe

    9 12.86%
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Thread: Flat tax or progressive tax? Which do you prefer?

  1. #21
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Flat tax or progressive tax? Which do you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Oh, really? Where in the Constitution does it say that?
    why was the 16th amendment enacted

    do you ever bother to read information about the founders and their beliefs.

    does your desire to loot the wealth of others preclude that?



  2. #22
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    Re: Flat tax or progressive tax? Which do you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Oh, really? Where in the Constitution does it say that?
    The Constitution is not the only source of information on what the founding fathers thought, wanted, liked, disliked, etc...

    U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the History of the U.S. Tax System
    Though social policies sometimes governed the course of tax policy even in the early days of the Republic, the nature of these policies did not extend either to the collection of taxes so as to equalize incomes and wealth, or for the purpose of redistributing income or wealth. As Thomas Jefferson once wrote regarding the "general Welfare" clause:

    To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

  3. #23
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    Re: Flat tax or progressive tax? Which do you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    My comment was that I agreed that the rich should help the poor... but it should not be mandated in the form of taxes. If I want to help the poor, I will, don't FORCE me to do so by taxing me to do it.
    Smith wasn't speaking of the poor, he was speaking about the public expense. He was speaking about a progressive tax system.

    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.


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    Re: Flat tax or progressive tax? Which do you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Smith wasn't speaking of the poor, he was speaking about the public expense. He was speaking about a progressive tax system.
    The poor, as well as the 'ok' as well as the 'slightly more ok' etc, are all part of that. I have no problem paying my fair share in taxes to 'contribute to the public expense', but I simply do not believe I should have to pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes, simply because I have achieved more in my life than someone else has. If I want to help those who have not acheived as much as I have, I'll choose to do so, or not.

  5. #25
    Count Smackula
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    Re: Flat tax or progressive tax? Which do you prefer?

    Progressive taxation is needed for 2 primary reasons
    1) Lower income people spend a far higher proportion of the money on consumer spending, which is the primary driver of our economy.
    2) Lower income people tend to spend most of their money on basic needs and lowering their income would have a significant impact on social stability.

    Fairness, in either income earned or taxation is a pipe dream. With an all-so fair flat tax, it still runs into issues with how to treat capital gains, inheritance, and income earned overseas.

  6. #26
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    Re: Flat tax or progressive tax? Which do you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    The poor, as well as the 'ok' as well as the 'slightly more ok' etc, are all part of that. I have no problem paying my fair share in taxes to 'contribute to the public expense', but I simply do not believe I should have to pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes, simply because I have achieved more in my life than someone else has. If I want to help those who have not acheived as much as I have, I'll choose to do so, or not.
    The reason you achieve more is because you use more of that provided provided by the govenment. For example if you invent a widget, why should I care whether somebody starts making the same thing and profiting from it, they will pobably sell it cheaper than you. Why should I have to pay taxes to protect YOU? That's just one example of why the rich should pay at a higher rate.

    In short, you are wealthy because you depend upon much of what the govenment provides you by helping you get weathy and protecting it.


  7. #27
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    Re: Flat tax or progressive tax? Which do you prefer?

    I liked the arguments presented at the beginning of this thread for a flat tax better than I do the fairness concern. I think there is truth to the claim that wealthy people benefit more from a lot of what governemnt does to help them accumulate weallth. Government has often been quite supportive of the wealthy and big business. We spend far more money on helping them than we do the poor. Investigate corrporate welfare sometime.

    In any case, I prefer arguments concerning the good of the country over fairness for the wealthy, who I don't believe are being mistreated.

    Just saying . . .

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #28
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    Re: Flat tax or progressive tax? Which do you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Progressive taxation is needed for 2 primary reasons
    1) Lower income people spend a far higher proportion of the money on consumer spending, which is the primary driver of our economy.
    2) Lower income people tend to spend most of their money on basic needs and lowering their income would have a significant impact on social stability.

    Fairness, in either income earned or taxation is a pipe dream. With an all-so fair flat tax, it still runs into issues with how to treat capital gains, inheritance, and income earned overseas.
    Why is taking care of the poor a Federal and NOT a state issue? Increase in Federal Taxes will result in people fleeing states with higher taxes and thus cut state revenue shortfalls putting more pressure on the Federal Govt. and U.S. Taxpayer. Cuts in Federal Taxes will put more power back where it belongs, at the state and local level.

    The poor spending a higher percentage of their income on consumer spending really is irrelevant because that spendin is offset by higher deficits and greater use of public services by these same people. No one can tell me that people making 50,000 and less cannot afford something in the form of taxes.

  9. #29
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    Re: Flat tax or progressive tax? Which do you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The poor spending a higher percentage of their income on consumer spending really is irrelevant because that spendin is offset by higher deficits and greater use of public services by these same people.
    Not true, the govenment protects the wealthy far more that they protect the poor.


  10. #30
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    Re: Flat tax or progressive tax? Which do you prefer?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Not true, the govenment protects the wealthy far more that they protect the poor.
    Right, that is why 47% of the income earners in this country don't pay any Federal Income taxes and why high income earners are paying more in taxes under the Bush tax cuts. Tax laws in this country were written by the Ways and Means Committee in this country and for the past 4 years it has been under the control of the Democrats. All those so called protection for the rich loop holes were created by the Ways and Means Committee in the House. You can thank Democrats for any protection for the Rich that exists.

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