View Poll Results: Which option best describes you?

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  • I'm a theist - there is definitely a God/higher power

    14 31.11%
  • I'm a theist - there is a possibility that there is not a God

    5 11.11%
  • I'm an atheist - there is no God

    11 24.44%
  • I'm an atheist - there is a possibility that there is a God

    8 17.78%
  • I self identify as an agnostic, neither atheist nor theist

    3 6.67%
  • Other - I defy the above classifications

    4 8.89%
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Thread: No god, or probably not a God (for an added bonus the invese God Vs. probably God)

  1. #41
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    Re: No god, or probably not a God (for an added bonus the invese God Vs. probably Go

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Where indeed. The inflation model, which is theory but quantum fluctuations can help explain part of it, explains time-space as the expansion of the universe from the Big Bang. Though that too has problems associated with the theory. In the end, it's not known. And there's your answer. So at this point we have a choice. We can say that either there is some natural cause that we just don't know at this point. Or we can say it was magic. Gods are magical answers. Maybe it was magic, but I see no evidence of it in our current incarnation of the universe. I'm more apt to say that it is well more probable that there is a natural cause of which we do not yet know.

    There is nothing we've observed yet which would necessitate a god.
    Rational thought is evolved?

    And I realize it's a weak argument, but where's the Higgs boson? I mean if we are going to point out things that none of us can understand, then I can point out arguments that no one understands that supports my position.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #42
    don't panic
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    Re: No god, or probably not a God (for an added bonus the invese God Vs. probably Go

    OK, I did not want to have my response front and center potentially tainting and or inadvertently adding bias or skewing the poll somehow at the onset - I wanted to give others a chance to weigh in first.

    I consider myself an atheist albeit an agnostic one (I do not believe there is a god, but there is no way of knowing); however there is a possibility that there is a god/higher power. I put more stock in the higher power option as being a possibility, while I think that the myriad of anthropomorphized entities that are the common source of human worship/devotion are so ridiculous, self centered and similar that they are all almost definitively of human construct - yet even still there is that "almost", the agnosticism and skepticism which is a component of my lack of belief in a god/higher power is the very same that does not allow me to definitively say that there is not.
    Last edited by marduc; 10-19-10 at 02:38 PM.
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  3. #43
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    Re: No god, or probably not a God (for an added bonus the invese God Vs. probably Go

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    isn't light a form of energy? it's not nothing.......

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  4. #44
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    Re: No god, or probably not a God (for an added bonus the invese God Vs. probably Go

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Rational thought is evolved?

    And I realize it's a weak argument, but where's the Higgs boson? I mean if we are going to point out things that none of us can understand, then I can point out arguments that no one understands that supports my position.
    Your position is scientifically unsupportable. I don't know where the Higgs is. If I did, I'd have a Nobel Prize. I don't know how to quantize gravity either. But what does any of this have to do with a god? These are mechanics that we haven't figured out yet. I think it would be pretty presumptuous to state that mankind knows everything there is to know right now. And rather boring, as there would no longer be any challenges left.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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  5. #45
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    Re: No god, or probably not a God (for an added bonus the invese God Vs. probably Go

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Your position is scientifically unsupportable. I don't know where the Higgs is. If I did, I'd have a Nobel Prize. I don't know how to quantize gravity either. But what does any of this have to do with a god? These are mechanics that we haven't figured out yet. I think it would be pretty presumptuous to state that mankind knows everything there is to know right now. And rather boring, as there would no longer be any challenges left.
    But the whole something from nothing argument isn't completely figured out either. Like I said, we're both talking above our heads so why don't we just leave this issue alone? I'll concede that it's possible that something could come from nothing, though still not proven. Let's move on to the other 4 arguments, plus my argument about the evolution of rational thought.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #46
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    Re: No god, or probably not a God (for an added bonus the invese God Vs. probably Go

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    isn't light a form of energy? it's not nothing.......
    Hey, ask the scientists who said they created something from nothing. The 'nothing' was an empty vacuum. Then there was matter there.
    Last edited by rivrrat; 10-19-10 at 02:33 PM.

  7. #47
    Norville Rogers
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    Re: No god, or probably not a God (for an added bonus the invese God Vs. probably Go

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    How is it not? It is the only possible explanation. If you have a state where you had nothing, and you now have something, then something had to come from above nature because nature cannot make itself. As for quantum fluctuations, I can't understand that so I'm not even going to try; I'll wait for the problems to be figured out by people smarter than me. That said, I pointed out 5 arguments and that would only deal with 1.
    I think you just answered your own question

  8. #48
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    Re: No god, or probably not a God (for an added bonus the invese God Vs. probably Go

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    But the whole something from nothing argument isn't completely figured out either. Like I said, we're both talking above our heads so why don't we just leave this issue alone? I'll concede that it's possible that something could come from nothing, though still not proven. Let's move on to the other 4 arguments, plus my argument about the evolution of rational thought.
    I'm not talking over my head. I understand quantum fluctuations well. Physics is something I am very well acquainted with. Considering I'm a PhD experimental physicist. You want to drop it because you can't beat it. Quantum fluctuations comes out of gauge theory and is predicted in quantum field theory. Furthermore, it would have a measurable effect which HAS BEEN MEASURED. The Lamb Shift and the effective electron charge are both examples of this. Energy conservation can be and is violated on short time scales. This too is a quantum effect lending itself for the uncertainty rule. You're thinking well to classically about this, and while there is nothing wrong with classical mechanics; it is not how the fundamental of the universe works. Quantum mechanics is well more apt at describing the fundamental behavior.

    And the use of thermodynamics under conditions such as a singularity (which existed before the Big Bang) is not proper as the physics of a singularity is not well understood. Furthermore, the laws of thermodynamics are not proven from first principle. They are based off observation in our current universe. And the rules of thermodynamics have never been observed to have been broken; which is why they became laws.

    And why could rational thought not evolve?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #49
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    Re: No god, or probably not a God (for an added bonus the invese God Vs. probably Go

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Hey, ask the scientists who said they created something from nothing. The 'nothing' was an empty vacuum. Then there was matter there.
    yeah....but light contains photons........so it's not really nothing. what a great site, though! thanks!

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  10. #50
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    Re: No god, or probably not a God (for an added bonus the invese God Vs. probably Go

    I am not a theist, nor am I an atheist, but I'm also not agnostic as I do not believe it is impossible to know of the existence/non-existence of God.

    I'm an unbeliever because I do not feel that theism and atheism are supported by strong enough evidence for me to have a belief in either of them.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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