View Poll Results: Does water have a taste?

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Thread: Does water have a taste? Is atheism a religion?

  1. #91
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    Re: Does water have a taste? Is atheism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glinda View Post
    So, you're just being peevish.

    Got it.
    Yes, generally when people are refusing to accept something that is an actual word based off of negative conotations the words have taken on rather than becaus of the actual definition, I tend to be obstinate to the notion that it should just be ignored and let go and that the definition doesn't matter. I tend to be be querulous in situations where such happens.

    Belief is just beleif. Its not in and of itself a good or bad thing. Even if one things religion is not a good thing, Religion requires belief but belief does not equal religion. Running away from something being labeled "belief" when its clearly coming to the conclusion of something for ones self to me seems weird and thus interesting that people would do it and thus I enjoy discussing it fervently which is true of most things I find interesting.

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    Re: Does water have a taste? Is atheism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, you DO give a ****.
    No, I don't give a **** if some god or goddess exists or not. It's rather irrelevant to my existence and daily life.

    If you didn't give a **** you wouldn't make a claim for you personally either way about gods.
    Someone asks me, I reply. I don't give a **** if the creature of the abyss exists or not either, but if you ask me if I think it does, I'll say no, that I don't believe it does.

    But you DO make a claim as to what is true in regards to your views on it personally at this time, which means you DO give a ****, and is a belief.
    Lacking a belief is not a belief. I make no claims whatsoever as to what's true, only about what I do not believe.

    And that is a belief.
    No, it is not. Words mean things. Saying 'I do not believe' /= 'I believe'. The word 'not' is there for a ****ing reason.

    Yes, you are. I'm not suggesting intentionally. I'm saying that stating "I lack the belief in [x]" is the same as saying "I believe in [y]" where [x]=something and [y]=not something. Simply because you say it one way more often because it makes your mind feel better in convincing yourself that its not a belief doesn't mean its not one.
    Incorrect.

    There is an issue, whether or not gods exist, and you have a view on it one way or another, that they don't.
    No, I do not hold such a view and I am getting sick of people trying to tell me what I believe. What you just stated is NOT my belief.

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but explain to me what the difference between not believing there are gods and believing there are no gods?
    So you cannot comprehend the difference between saying "I believe" and "I do not believe"? Seriously?
    Last edited by rivrrat; 10-18-10 at 03:58 PM.

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    Re: Does water have a taste? Is atheism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, generally when people are refusing to accept something that is an actual word based off of negative conotations the words have taken on rather than becaus of the actual definition, I tend to be obstinate to the notion that it should just be ignored and let go and that the definition doesn't matter. I tend to be be querulous in situations where such happens.

    Belief is just beleif. Its not in and of itself a good or bad thing. Even if one things religion is not a good thing, Religion requires belief but belief does not equal religion. Running away from something being labeled "belief" when its clearly coming to the conclusion of something for ones self to me seems weird and thus interesting that people would do it and thus I enjoy discussing it fervently which is true of most things I find interesting.
    No one is running away from anything. If I actually held the beliefs you attribute to me, the beliefs you keep insisting that I have, I would ****ing say so. What I get pissed about are people trying to insist that I believe something I DO NOT BELIEVE. I have no qualms about my beliefs or lack thereof. I am not ashamed of them. But I'm not going sit by and let someone tell me that I believe something I don't.

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    Re: Does water have a taste? Is atheism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And yet is still a belief, as there is no clear cut indiciation of what the "best team in football" is. Its a subjective notion not an unquestionable truth. Stating a view either way, be it believing they are or not believing they are, is making a statement of personal truth in regards to your view on it. That's a belief. The fact that it is or isn't backed up with facts doesn't change it from being a belief.
    Atheism isn't stating which team is the best. It's not even having the discussion. That's what theists are doing.
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    Re: Does water have a taste? Is atheism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    My confusion was in people seeming to claim to be Athiests but then stating that they don't believe its an absolute truth there is no god, but simply that they don't know of any proof that there is a god and as such until such time that proof presents itself they don't believe there are any. To me, the latter sounded like agnosticism but they suggested that no, its just a form of athiesm and its what athiests think. I was simply stating that if that's true then I RARELY see it stated that way from athiests, as I usually see it stated as if its some kind of truth. I was confused specifically for the reason you pointed out, to me that sounds a damn lot like agnosticism not athiesm.
    It is a form of atheism and one which is stated often by atheists. Here's the deal with that. Gods are by definition immeasurable systems. There's no way to measure a god and thus there is no way to fully quantitatively or qualitatively demonstrate the existence of a god. In the absence of data, the ability to even take data, one cannot conclusively say anything about the system. Gods are, in fact, a pure superposition of states composed of existing or not existing. We cannot collapse the wavefunction as we have no way to measure the system. So you cannot say anything about gods with 100% certainty. Can gods exist? Sure, why not? Since there is no conclusive evidence (and thanks to the way we've defined gods, can never be conclusive evidence...not in this existence) one must then operate off of probabilities. Well sure a god can exist, but how likely is it for a god to exist? Agnostics may put that more at a 50/50 shot. An atheist will say something more like "while gods can exist, given the observations of this current world it seems to me to be rather improbable and is much more likely that gods do not exist." It's not an absolute statement, but rather one based on probabilities of the superposition of states. Given that the is well more probable that gods do not exist than do exist, I do not believe in a god till there is concrete evidence of a god demonstrated to exist. But that evidence cannot be had due to the definition of gods as immeasurable states. I do not believe in a god.
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    Re: Does water have a taste? Is atheism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Here, I'll help you Glinda. Two posts earlier in the thread. I understand what Agnosticism. My confusion was in people seeming to claim to be Athiests but then stating that they don't believe its an absolute truth there is no god, but simply that they don't know of any proof that there is a god and as such until such time that proof presents itself they don't believe there are any. To me, the latter sounded like agnosticism but they suggested that no, its just a form of athiesm and its what athiests think. I was simply stating that if that's true then I RARELY see it stated that way from athiests, as I usually see it stated as if its some kind of truth. I was confused specifically for the reason you pointed out, to me that sounds a damn lot like agnosticism not athiesm.
    "there is no way to know for sure if there is a god, but to be safe I assume that there is"

    there we now have an example of thinking from the standpoint of an agnostic theist. There is a huge difference between that and "I know there is a God"

    it is the same difference between agnostic atheism and gnostic atheism. I do not know there is a god, and although you added qualifying words I do not particularly agree with earlier (there may very well be a God), I acknowledge a possibility that there may be a higher power; however for the sake of my personal life and this specific time and place of existence I see no way of knowing one way or another for a certainty,so I assume the default position that in all liklihood that there is not. I could be wrong...I like my odds though
    Last edited by marduc; 10-18-10 at 04:03 PM.
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    Re: Does water have a taste? Is atheism a religion?

    Why did you edit my post and take out what I had posted there? I'll choose to believe it was on accident; but if not...poor show.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Does water have a taste? Is atheism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    So you cannot comprehend the difference between saying "I believe" and "I do not believe"? Seriously?
    I'm just going to come down to this because really that's where the conflict is.

    No, I don't see a difference between "I believe there are no X" and "I do not believe in X". To me those are the same thing. To me that is the difference between going "0 - 1 = -1" and "0 + -1 = -1". In both cases your result is -1. In both cases, your stating a belief. Its just a change in how you're attempting to state it.

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    Re: Does water have a taste? Is atheism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's one flavor of atheism. However, many atheists believe that the existence of a deity or the supernatural is highly improbable and will not believe in it unless there is hard evidence shown to prove its existence.
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    Re: Does water have a taste? Is atheism a religion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Atheism isn't stating which team is the best. It's not even having the discussion. That's what theists are doing.
    No its not, no its not at all.

    Athiesm isn't stating which team is best....its stating that a team ISN'T the best.

    Not even having the discussion would not be making a comment as to whether or not the team is the best or not. Agnostisism is closer to your "no taste", closer to your "not having the discussion", than athiesm is.

    Athiesm IS coming down on one side, the side of disbelief.

    Agnositicism is coming down on neither side, in being tasteless, in not having the discussion, in not making a statement of belief of or belief against.

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