View Poll Results: Is Cesar Chavez someone we should celebrate?

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  • Yes

    7 33.33%
  • No

    8 38.10%
  • Jimmy Hoffa

    6 28.57%
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Thread: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    You don't. They are indebted to you, as you are indebted to your ancestors.
    How could they be indebted to me? If I don't own myself then I have no right to my creations. As I said, logically, the only one then who owns anything is the one who owns himself. The only person who could own himself is someone who created himself.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #62
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    You don't have to own something for it to be indebted to you.

  3. #63
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    You don't have to own something for it to be indebted to you.
    Then I morally owe nothing. Just because people chose to give me something does not mean that I am indebted to them. If someone on the street hands me $50 then I am not indebted to him. It was his choice. If he then wants me to give him the money back then I have no reason to. It wasn't stipulated at the time of the agreement and so I have no obligation to give it back.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #64
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I'm looking for actual proof, not just your feelings. You're basically just using anecdotal evidence.

    And we have unemployment now because of minimum wage, a social security net, etc.
    There is actual proof. These aren't unknown things. The labor pool during the times of least regulation were huge. Employers took advantage of that. They could fire anyone for any reason, including injury. Which they did, often. This was the reality of the time, maybe you should read up on labor conditions during the industrial revolution and such. Additionally, unemployment doesn't occur because of any of that. Unemployment is seen in every economics system. We had unemployment before we had minimum wage and social security. We have it now. I don't think anyone has ever had 100% employment of their population.

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    People take risks all the time for potential future profit! Your argument is illogical. If it was true, then there is no reason why Las Vegas hotels should exist. None at all.
    Vegas hotels were money laundering schemes for the mafia. However, you're confusing things here. There are entrepreneurs and they will take risks to start a new industry or something. But in the established markets, sometimes risks don't work out. And if the main goal is making money then it becomes prohibitive to take certain risks which will net out short term losses because the time scales are not the same. It can take a bit of time to develop new technologies to increase efficiency and if another company is more profitable over that time scale, the investing company may not be there. Plus the incentive is short term gains which means that if you have a similar company as someone else and they are making tons of money by taking advantage of lack of regulation, you're going to do the same and not try to advance the technologies. We saw this with the banking industry recently when all the regulations were removed and we allowed the banks to leverage large amounts. People in the banking industry were making money hand over fist. Many knew the situation was not sustainable, but their goal is to make money for their shareholders and thus they also engaged in the behavior. Without the proper oversight and regulation, the system crashes; as it did spectacularly this last time.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  5. #65
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    I think we should. It has been over 1000 years since the Roman empire has gotten any reasonable holidays. I think it would be cool to have one day we can run around saying Hail Cesar! Oh wait... Never mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #66
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There is actual proof. These aren't unknown things. The labor pool during the times of least regulation were huge. Employers took advantage of that. They could fire anyone for any reason, including injury. Which they did, often. This was the reality of the time, maybe you should read up on labor conditions during the industrial revolution and such. Additionally, unemployment doesn't occur because of any of that. Unemployment is seen in every economics system. We had unemployment before we had minimum wage and social security. We have it now. I don't think anyone has ever had 100% employment of their population.
    If there is proof then show it to me. Furthermore, stating that there was unemployment before SS and MW doesn't change the fact that they have a negative effect on employment.

    Vegas hotels were money laundering schemes for the mafia. However, you're confusing things here. There are entrepreneurs and they will take risks to start a new industry or something. But in the established markets, sometimes risks don't work out. And if the main goal is making money then it becomes prohibitive to take certain risks which will net out short term losses because the time scales are not the same. It can take a bit of time to develop new technologies to increase efficiency and if another company is more profitable over that time scale, the investing company may not be there. Plus the incentive is short term gains which means that if you have a similar company as someone else and they are making tons of money by taking advantage of lack of regulation, you're going to do the same and not try to advance the technologies. We saw this with the banking industry recently when all the regulations were removed and we allowed the banks to leverage large amounts. People in the banking industry were making money hand over fist. Many knew the situation was not sustainable, but their goal is to make money for their shareholders and thus they also engaged in the behavior. Without the proper oversight and regulation, the system crashes; as it did spectacularly this last time.
    Small businesses usually aren't profitable for 2 years, yet they start up all the time. There is a huge up-front cost to the owner of such a business and they do sometimes fail. Yet it still happens. Explain.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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