View Poll Results: Is Cesar Chavez someone we should celebrate?

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  • Yes

    7 33.33%
  • No

    8 38.10%
  • Jimmy Hoffa

    6 28.57%
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Thread: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajay View Post
    Who became worse off? People south of the border who had no guarantee jobs or the actual people who were hired?
    Answer my analogy.

    "I could lift 100 people out of poverty in this country by enslaving say the city of Los Angeles. Because I helped the 100 people am I an angel, or am I a devil for enslaving the city?"

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  2. #42
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    "I could lift 100 people out of poverty in this country by enslaving say the city of Los Angeles. Because I helped the 100 people am I an angel, or am I a devil for enslaving the city?"
    That depends on who the 100 people are and who you are. Really, it depends on whether you're asking one of those 100 people or one of the former citizens of Los Angeles.

  3. #43
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Why would you not?

    Well... I guess if you only watch Fox New, everything you think you know about the labor leader and civil rights activists is ...wrong.

  4. #44
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Answer my analogy.

    "I could lift 100 people out of poverty in this country by enslaving say the city of Los Angeles. Because I helped the 100 people am I an angel, or am I a devil for enslaving the city?"
    Are you arguing for a socialistic view of the one or two sacrificed for the many?

  5. #45
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    1. Proof that farms would not contract if labor became more expensive?



    2. Prove that more Mexicans worked because of his efforts.



    3. They don't look at the unintended consequences. They're called unintended consequences for a reason. They only see that Cesar Chavez fought for higher wages. They ignore the fact that this necessarily caused higher unemployment among migrant farm workers.
    Originally Posted by phattonez:
    So the Mexicans that could no longer work because of the closed shop policy are imaginary?

    If a farm needs 30 workers a day and can pay them $25 for the day, but they now demand $50 for the day, what are they going to do? Produce less (because price per unit increases when you produce less) and hire less (because the company needs to stay profitable).

    --------------------
    1. Farms grew under the system of rights for farm workers. Farms produced more not less. There's your evidence. You used a hypothesis with no basis in reality, and reality is available to you.

    here is what I wrote that you responded to: Facts is American farms did not do this. Your theory is not a fact.

    Mexicans are not guaranteed a job on American farms. btw, more than Mexicans worked on farms and got better lives because of CC's work.

    I wonder why so many Mexicans and others who are farm workers loved CC? I guess that weren't as concerned as you are for others and they aren't as smart as you are, eh?

    -----------

    2. Prove that more Mexicans worked? I have no idea where you are coming from here. Do you? Is there something implied that I missed? Did you have an issue comprehending this part of my statements: "btw, more than Mexicans worked on farms and got better lives because of CC's work."?

    3. Higher unemployment of migrant workers? Where in the world do you get this idea? You keep stating things that come across as part of a fabulous big lie.

  6. #46
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    That depends on who the 100 people are and who you are. Really, it depends on whether you're asking one of those 100 people or one of the former citizens of Los Angeles.
    I have no idea how anyone can seriously answer the poster's statements and analogy. Did Chavez somehow enslave people? How does enslaving an entire major city for the benefit of a handful translate to a credible and rational analogy of the work of Chavez?

  7. #47
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Why would you not?

    Well... I guess if you only watch Fox New, everything you think you know about the labor leader and civil rights activists is ...wrong.
    Yes, I sit around all day and watch Fox News. You caught me.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #48
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajay View Post
    Are you arguing for a socialistic view of the one or two sacrificed for the many?
    No! I'm arguing that I'm not justified in enslaving those people.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #49
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    That depends on who the 100 people are and who you are. Really, it depends on whether you're asking one of those 100 people or one of the former citizens of Los Angeles.
    Or is there something wrong with violating one's ownership of self?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  10. #50
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    Re: Should we celebrate Cesar Chavez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajay View Post
    I have no idea how anyone can seriously answer the poster's statements and analogy. Did Chavez somehow enslave people? How does enslaving an entire major city for the benefit of a handful translate to a credible and rational analogy of the work of Chavez?
    It was an extreme analogy, obviously, but if I can't justify that then how can I justify what Chavez did?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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