View Poll Results: What matters more; historical facts or historical fiction passed off as facts?

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  • Historical facts backed by documentation

    12 85.71%
  • Historical fiction that was passed off as facts

    2 14.29%
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Thread: What matters more historical facts or historical fiction passed off as facts?

  1. #1
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    What matters more historical facts or historical fiction passed off as facts?

    This is an offshoot of the Columbus Day thread. What matters more to you; historical facts backed by documentation or historical fiction passed off as facts?

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    Re: What matters more historical facts or historical fiction passed off as facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    This is an offshoot of the Columbus Day thread. What matters more to you; historical facts backed by documentation or historical fiction passed off as facts?
    Doesn't it seem odd to you that some at this point in time are at all concerned with Columbus and his legacy (??) I mean, why not go back further and think how lovely the World would have been if ONLY those Frankish Knights hadn't halted the First Jihad at Tours(??) or if the Mongols had made it all the way to Paris, or if the Aztecs were still ripping out Human hearts and Caking the Temple walls with blood and enjoying a few select delicasies

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    Re: What matters more historical facts or historical fiction passed off as facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Racine View Post
    Doesn't it seem odd to you that some at this point in time are at all concerned with Columbus and his legacy (??) I mean, why not go back further and think how lovely the World would have been if ONLY those Frankish Knights hadn't halted the First Jihad at Tours(??) or if the Mongols had made it all the way to Paris, or if the Aztecs were still ripping out Human hearts and Caking the Temple walls with blood and enjoying a few select delicasies
    This doesn't really have to do with my question, but it is an interesting thought.

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    Re: What matters more historical facts or historical fiction passed off as facts?

    In what regard?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: What matters more historical facts or historical fiction passed off as facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    In what regard?
    In regards to history. It can be any person or event.

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    Re: What matters more historical facts or historical fiction passed off as facts?

    Is this in regards to names, dates, and events? (X person went to Y and did Z at such and such a time frame).

    Or are we talking about the interpretation of those events? (X event is historically important because ...). The reason I ask is that the second category is hard to pin down factually as it intermingles fact with opinion.

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    Re: What matters more historical facts or historical fiction passed off as facts?

    And who determines what is fact, what is fiction?
    Its to the point that I believe nothing, but that man is a SOB.

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    Re: What matters more historical facts or historical fiction passed off as facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Is this in regards to names, dates, and events? (X person went to Y and did Z at such and such a time frame).

    Or are we talking about the interpretation of those events? (X event is historically important because ...). The reason I ask is that the second category is hard to pin down factually as it intermingles fact with opinion.
    Either/or since it's up to you on how you want to reply.

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    Re: What matters more historical facts or historical fiction passed off as facts?

    Well, that doesn't really answer the question I had. Here is why.

    Are we talking about myself, where what I would like to know when picking up a scholar's book or article? I would like to see that author's true attempt to convey the truth of his narrative to the best of his or her ability.

    Are we talking about a young school child? Do I want the young child to know that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, that much of Washington D.C. was built by the hands of slaves without due respect, that many Africans and African Americans fought in our wars proudly without receiving their due respect from their white peers, that the citizenry was not expected to be as politically involved as they are now, that certain Presidents didn't want certain groups of people to even be born? Or would I have them learn about Honest Abe, how George Washington couldn't tell a lie, that we live in a good country where freedom and liberty are deeply treasured?

    Do we tell the good facts, the bad facts, or the historical fictions? I would like my child to start off with a positive, if not somewhat fictionalized beginning so I could steadily approach my child to see the complications of history and how we do not have to accept all that transpired, but that we also cannot entirely demonize it. When children are young they are easily manipulated, when they grow older, they have a disproportionate attraction to the ideal, then eventually, they are able to face the complications of reality. History challenges people at every turn in their lives, and we must be careful with how we challenge them.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 10-12-10 at 01:07 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: What matters more historical facts or historical fiction passed off as facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Well, that doesn't really answer the question I had. Here is why.

    Are we talking about myself, where what I would like to know when picking up a scholar's book or article? I would like to see that author's true attempt to convey the truth of his narrative to the best of his or her ability.

    Are we talking about a young school child? Do I want the young child to know that George Washington and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, that much of Washington D.C. was built by the hands of slaves without due respect, that many Africans and African Americans fought in our wars proudly without receiving their due respect from their white peers, that the citizenry was not expected to be as politically involved as they are now, that certain Presidents didn't want certain groups of people to even be born? Or would I have them learn about Honest Abe, how George Washington couldn't tell a lie, that we live in a good country where freedom and liberty are deeply treasured?

    Do we tell the good facts, the bad facts, or the historical fictions? I would like my child to start off with a positive, if not somewhat fictionalized beginning so I could steadily approach my child to see the complications of history and how we do not have to accept all that transpired, but that we also cannot entirely demonize it. When children are young they are easily manipulated, when they grow older, they have a disproportionate attraction to the ideal, then eventually, they are able to face the complications of reality. History challenges people at every turn in their lives, and we must be careful with how we challenge them.
    I'm the opposite of what you want to do in regards to kids learning about history. I believe that by telling them the whole truth allows them to decide what lessons should be learned from history. It develops critical thinking and gives them the tools to question everything. Your method is currently used, up until the bad stuff, and it's not developing critical thinking and students questioning. A student that questions everything will employ tools to analyze statements made to them and root out what is true and what isn't. A good example would be a student hearing you say that America is a good country where freedom and liberty are treasured and questioning it. What makes America a good country? Does America truly treasure freedom and liberty when there are laws that control behavior and movements of the people? This is all critical thinking and questioning of the status quo. Nowdays students just accept the spoonfed history without question and never critically think about the things they are taught.

    That is unless I misunderstood the intent of your reply.
    Last edited by The_Patriot; 10-12-10 at 01:15 PM.

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