View Poll Results: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

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Thread: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

  1. #81
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I'm mostly laughing at myself, because people respond to the unfinished post more often than the finished one. Oh well, I'm still searching in my head how to incorporate Arnold Toynbee in another short paper I have to write about historiography and the American public school classroom :P

    Are you finished with this post? I want to know when to respond

  2. #82
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Do it.....ya bastard!
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  3. #83
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I have always appreciated your realism Korimyr, but surely even you can appreciate that your views on the "nature" of human civilizations have been formed through an Amero-centric lens. All of the things you describe are the natures of your nation. Not all nations are warlike and there are those which live in relative peace. Your view presumes that the human consciousness does not evolve with time; that the way you see nationhood in modern day America is the way that all nations and cultures see it, past and present. We can draw conclusions about some basic human natures, sure, but that glosses over many efforts throughout the ages to change our ways. The fact that we often fall back on primitive impulses is clear, but only honing on that is precluding the fact that there are many people who want it to be better, and who want the world to be a better place. Every human evolution is slow and takes time, but the desire to change starts with a single idea, and the idea spreads.

    The way the world is now, with its interconnectedness and complex interdependence -- it has NEVER been this way before in all of our known world history. The mentality of conquer or be conquered doesn't fully apply anymore. I know it does to many Americans, and that brings me back to my original point: the fact that you are American shapes your view on this. Your nation is warlike, it thrives on conflicts, and it creates many of them; the many "natures" you state are, in many ways, American apologism for state behaviour.

    Christopher Columbus day may be a misguided tradition, but it's a carry-over from the era when most of the nations in power truly did think the way you are describing. It's not a eutopia now by any means but I don't see any point in maintaining a lie under the guise that it's the glue that holds nations together. It isn't. Nations remain in tact because people work out of mutual interest, and in case you haven't noticed, your nation has at least two potentially fatal problems right now, one of which is epidemic, non-sustainable selfishness.

    My, what a mouthful.

    Are you trying to pretend that Canada has no blood on its hands? That no indians were displaced by its founding? That neither Canada nor any part of it has ever fought any questionable wars?

    That oh-so-enlightened Europe wasn't carved out in blood? That Europe didn't give birth to terms like The Hundred Years' War, The Inquisition, World War One and Two, and so on?

    All those nations were founded in spilled blood. It's no good trying to single out America.

    Yes, we are warlike, if you define "warlike" as "willing to wage war when it seems needful to do so." And it is a damn good thing for the entire world that we are, or Europe would be called the Third Reich and Imperial Japan would rule Asia.


    Frankly what you consider "advanced" in nations, I consider "Decadence" and being too weak willed to take action when action is called for.
    Last edited by Goshin; 10-11-10 at 09:37 PM.

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  4. #84
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Do it.....ya bastard!

    Meh never mind I forgot what I was going to say

  5. #85
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Fine, be that way.

    Anyways, can you tell that I really love historiography?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  6. #86
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Fine, be that way.

    Anyways, can you tell that I really love historiography?

    Yep I sure can

  7. #87
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Ah...

    ...so it is okay to damn Columbus to hell for being a man of his time and culture...


    ....but Abe Lincoln gets a pass because, though he was a horrible racist by modern standards, for his time and culture he was maybe less racist than most.

    Sure. Makes perfect sense.
    Columbus was far worse than his time and culture. Even the Spanish monarchy got fed up with how unbelievably brutal he was toward the Native Americans.
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Columbus was far worse than his time and culture. Even the Spanish monarchy got fed up with how unbelievably brutal he was toward the Native Americans.


    Are there any White people you approve of ???

  9. #89
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    It is interesting when some people apply today’s social standards/values to people in the past. IMO to judge someone you must look at what the social standards were for that time.
    Hell, I don't even apply today's standards to people living today. There's something sick and broken in the morals we're expected to value today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    It isn't so different from what I'm talking about, which is namely not going out of your way to deconstruct the entire American mythos to the point that nobody feels proud to be an American.
    Hell, that's the point of it. We're supposed to feel guilty about being American so that we sit back and accept the aliens dismantling our country piece by piece and trading it off to the UN and the WTO. They tell us that we don't deserve to be great so that we'll stop doing whatever it takes to stay great. They want to destroy all vestiges of nationalism so that they can dismantle the concept of the nation-state and unite the world under one banner of love, lights, and lollipops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I have always appreciated your realism Korimyr, but surely even you can appreciate that your views on the "nature" of human civilizations have been formed through an Amero-centric lens.
    Of course. How could it be otherwise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    All of the things you describe are the natures of your nation. Not all nations are warlike and there are those which live in relative peace.
    Be shocked to hear you name one. All the ones that are known for being peaceful this century were colonial powers last century. The last veterans of World War II are still drawing breath. Hell, even Gandhi's India is a nuclear power. Even Canada, diplomatic mild-mannered Canada, usually jumps at the chance to get a piece of our action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Your view presumes that the human consciousness does not evolve with time; that the way you see nationhood in modern day America is the way that all nations and cultures see it, past and present. We can draw conclusions about some basic human natures, sure, but that glosses over many efforts throughout the ages to change our ways.
    I'm not glossing over the efforts that we have made to change human nature. If anything, I am calling attention to them because I think our failures are instructional. We haven't stopped exploiting aliens for every drop of sweat we can wring out of them, and we haven't stopped discarding them thoughtlessly when we're done with them. We just stopped doing it in our own backyard, where we would have to watch. Our treatment of aliens hasn't improved any more than our treatment of livestock; we've just removed ourself far enough from the process that we've forgotten where our meat comes from. This newfound "social conscience" of ours is a privileged delusion at best, and blatant self-serving hypocrisy at worst.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Christopher Columbus day may be a misguided tradition, but it's a carry-over from the era when most of the nations in power truly did think the way you are describing. It's not a eutopia now by any means but I don't see any point in maintaining a lie under the guise that it's the glue that holds nations together. It isn't. Nations remain in tact because people work out of mutual interest, and in case you haven't noticed, your nation has at least two potentially fatal problems right now, one of which is epidemic, non-sustainable selfishness.
    I'm not interested in the lie. I'm perfectly happy celebrating Colombus Day on the basis of slavery and genocide. It's all the poor bleeding hearts that have to lie to themselves to get out of bed in the morning.

  10. #90
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Racine View Post
    Are there any White people you approve of ???
    Yeah. Me.


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