View Poll Results: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

Voters
107. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    46 42.99%
  • No

    61 57.01%
Page 20 of 21 FirstFirst ... 1018192021 LastLast
Results 191 to 200 of 206

Thread: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

  1. #191
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 11:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Well from a certain point of view he did contact with the g/f.
    That's reeeeeeeally stretching it...
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  2. #192
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,863
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Wow, I can't believe there are so many inaccuracies of history in this thread.

    First Columbus may not have originally discovered the America's but he did "re-discover" it. Since all the others that had discovered the America's never told anyone and since CC did he gets the credit. Just like inventors of the past the ones that get the credit is the one that publishes a working theory/prototype, not the ones that did the preliminary work. History does the same thing. Was CC an unmitigated ass? Yes, he was. But that is not why he has a holiday. He has a holiday because he is the one that paved the way for colonization by other Europeans originally then others as time went on. He originally sailed to see if it was easier and cheaper to get to India for their silk and spices, instead he "discovered" an area that was rich in GOLD and other gems. Which he then told about once he got back. None of the other explorers that got to the America's first deserve any of the credit because they never told the rest of the world at large. CC did. Too bad for them.

    Second Lincoln did not start the Civil War. The south did by illegally trying to leave the Union. The southern states started to leave because they did not approve of Lincoln being elected President of the US. They thought that he was going to free the slaves and because of tarriffs on the South. Funny thing is that Lincoln said that he would not free the slaves if that is what it took to keep the Union together. Lincoln may have drew first blood but the South deserved it for failing to live up to their obligations under the Constitution. Specifically Article 1 section 10 and the supremacy clause of Article 6.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  3. #193
    Professor
    The_Patriot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    02-06-12 @ 06:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,488

    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Wow, I can't believe there are so many inaccuracies of history in this thread.

    First Columbus may not have originally discovered the America's but he did "re-discover" it. Since all the others that had discovered the America's never told anyone and since CC did he gets the credit. Just like inventors of the past the ones that get the credit is the one that publishes a working theory/prototype, not the ones that did the preliminary work. History does the same thing. Was CC an unmitigated ass? Yes, he was. But that is not why he has a holiday. He has a holiday because he is the one that paved the way for colonization by other Europeans originally then others as time went on. He originally sailed to see if it was easier and cheaper to get to India for their silk and spices, instead he "discovered" an area that was rich in GOLD and other gems. Which he then told about once he got back. None of the other explorers that got to the America's first deserve any of the credit because they never told the rest of the world at large. CC did. Too bad for them.

    Second Lincoln did not start the Civil War. The south did by illegally trying to leave the Union. The southern states started to leave because they did not approve of Lincoln being elected President of the US. They thought that he was going to free the slaves and because of tarriffs on the South. Funny thing is that Lincoln said that he would not free the slaves if that is what it took to keep the Union together. Lincoln may have drew first blood but the South deserved it for failing to live up to their obligations under the Constitution. Specifically Article 1 section 10 and the supremacy clause of Article 6.
    There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits states from seceding. Article I Section X and the Supremacy Clause applies to only states that are part of the Union. All of the founding fathers believed in secession, though they didn't use the word since it didn't come into use until the 1820's, and there is plenty of documentation to back that up. Lincoln had no intention of freeing the slaves as evidenced by his first inaugural address. In the same address he makes it clear that he would invade and go to war if the south didn't comply with the Morrell Tariff. Everything I've stated is backed up by documentation. What you've said is inaccurate and not backed up by anything.

    By your logic, the American colonies started the Revolutionary War when they issued the Declaration of Independence.
    Last edited by The_Patriot; 10-14-10 at 04:51 AM.

  4. #194
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-04-10 @ 07:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    588

    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Lincoln had changed substantially between 1861 & 1864. After massive Bloodletting he came to view the conflict as the "Hand of God" and an ordeal the Nation had to persevere and be essentially cleansed from the existence of Slavery to begin with. In short his 1860 pragmatism was gone. Events brought on new outlooks.

  5. #195
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    London, England and Dijon, France
    Last Seen
    03-06-11 @ 01:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    598

    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits states from seceding. Article I Section X and the Supremacy Clause applies to only states that are part of the Union. All of the founding fathers believed in secession, though they didn't use the word since it didn't come into use until the 1820's, and there is plenty of documentation to back that up. Lincoln had no intention of freeing the slaves as evidenced by his first inaugural address. In the same address he makes it clear that he would invade and go to war if the south didn't comply with the Morrell Tariff. Everything I've stated is backed up by documentation. What you've said is inaccurate and not backed up by anything.

    By your logic, the American colonies started the Revolutionary War when they issued the Declaration of Independence.


    A question, mate, if you will:

    Your psuedonym is "The Patriot". Would that be a patriot of the United States, or of Dixie? I'm always interested to hear the almost paradoxical opinions of Southerners who on the one hand support their homeland (the South), but with the other claim that the United States is their favourite nation. Would you care to explain?

  6. #196
    Professor
    The_Patriot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    02-06-12 @ 06:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,488

    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    A question, mate, if you will:

    Your psuedonym is "The Patriot". Would that be a patriot of the United States, or of Dixie? I'm always interested to hear the almost paradoxical opinions of Southerners who on the one hand support their homeland (the South), but with the other claim that the United States is their favourite nation. Would you care to explain?
    My username is to honor my ancestors that fought and died for the United States, except for my great-great grandfather's service in the Union Army. He was adamant about us not honoring his service because of him talking about how he was ordered to murder and rob Missourians. He told us to instead to honor his two older brothers that served in the Missouri Partisan Rangers in the Confederate Army. The rest of my ancestors fought for the US since the Revolutionary War up until Vietnam, in which my dad served. My brother served in Operation Just Cause. My dad gave me a bit of wonderful advice concerning loyalty to the US. He told me that he loved his country and the people of it, but he hated the government. One is not inclusive of the other.

    One of the things that people do not understand federalism and how it plays a role. Before the ratification of the 14th Amendment the people were only citizens of their states since US citizen didn't exist. States are foreign nations to each other that cooperate by using the federal government. Nowdays people have dual citizenship, one to their state of residence and one to the US federal authority.

    As far as being a patriot to the US or to Dixie, I would say that I am a patriot to the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Missouri, which I took an oath to both three times when I was a licensed security officer in St. Louis. Since oaths do not have an expiration date, I am bound to bear true faith while upholding and defending them. In either case, the Constitution is not the government, but is the foundation of good government.

  7. #197
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 11:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    My username is to honor my ancestors that fought and died for the United States, except for my great-great grandfather's service in the Union Army. He was adamant about us not honoring his service because of him talking about how he was ordered to murder and rob Missourians. He told us to instead to honor his two older brothers that served in the Missouri Partisan Rangers in the Confederate Army. The rest of my ancestors fought for the US since the Revolutionary War up until Vietnam, in which my dad served. My brother served in Operation Just Cause. My dad gave me a bit of wonderful advice concerning loyalty to the US. He told me that he loved his country and the people of it, but he hated the government. One is not inclusive of the other.

    One of the things that people do not understand federalism and how it plays a role. Before the ratification of the 14th Amendment the people were only citizens of their states since US citizen didn't exist. States are foreign nations to each other that cooperate by using the federal government. Nowdays people have dual citizenship, one to their state of residence and one to the US federal authority.

    As far as being a patriot to the US or to Dixie, I would say that I am a patriot to the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Missouri, which I took an oath to both three times when I was a licensed security officer in St. Louis. Since oaths do not have an expiration date, I am bound to bear true faith while upholding and defending them. In either case, the Constitution is not the government, but is the foundation of good government.
    I'm curious – given the chance, what would your preferences in terms of the makeup of the federal gov, state gov, and whatnot, be?

    Roll back the 14th?

    Or…what?

    And for that matter, to avoid derailing the thread too much, what would your preferences in terms of federal/state holidays be?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  8. #198
    Professor
    The_Patriot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    02-06-12 @ 06:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,488

    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I'm curious – given the chance, what would your preferences in terms of the makeup of the federal gov, state gov, and whatnot, be?

    Roll back the 14th?

    Or...what?

    And for that matter, to avoid derailing the thread too much, what would your preferences in terms of federal/state holidays be?
    I don't understand the first question.

    The 14th Amendment is fine. I have no problem with dual citizenship, but people must be aware that they are citizens of both the states and the US government.

    I'd remove the 16th and 17th Amendments since it gives the federal government too much power and allows them to turn a blind eye to the restrictions that are in the Constitution while restoring the power stolen from the states by the federal government back to the states. I'd modify the 24th Amendment by removing the section about President and Vice President since the office of the Executive represents the states and not the people as the primary duties of the Executive is in the defense of the states. I'd add an Amendment that reinforces that the federal government can only pass laws that affect their territory only or pursuent to one of the other delegated powers and every bill must specify which clause in the Constitution that it has a basis plus only deal with one issue. This Amendment would also add in a treason penalty to any member of government that fails to live up to their oath of office. I'd add in a balanced budget amendment and line item veto. Part of the balanced budget amendment would be the requirement that any spending bills of money will follow the amendment regarding specification and one subject. The next Amendment would be the abolishment of political parties, special interest groups, lobbyiests, and corporate fund raising with a penalty of treason against the people of the United States for failing to adhere to the amendment. My final Amendment would specify exactly how a state can leave the Union of States peaceably. The amendment would cover how much the state has to pay to the federal government to any lands owned by the federal government and their share of the deficit.

    I'd leave holidays up to each of the states and force government workers to work them or if they still want to take the day off they must do so for free. No more extra holidays just because you're a government employee over what anyone in the private sector gets.
    Last edited by The_Patriot; 10-14-10 at 06:02 PM.

  9. #199
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,863
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    There is nothing in the Constitution that prohibits states from seceding. Article I Section X and the Supremacy Clause applies to only states that are part of the Union.
    Are you trying to assert that the Southern states were NOT a part of the Union? South Carolina was a first part of the Union in Dec. 20, 1860 and then was readmitted to the Union in July 9, 1868 after the war. I could go on with the other states if you want.


    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    All of the founding fathers believed in secession, though they didn't use the word since it didn't come into use until the 1820's, and there is plenty of documentation to back that up.
    Agreed. But what you might not know is that Lincoln also supported sucession. In his July 4, 1848 speech he stated "Any people whatsoever have the right to abolish the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right." Or something to that effect.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Lincoln had no intention of freeing the slaves as evidenced by his first inaugural address. In the same address he makes it clear that he would invade and go to war if the south didn't comply with the Morrell Tariff.
    Didn't I already state as much? ...

    They thought that he was going to free the slaves and because of tarriffs on the South. Funny thing is that Lincoln said that he would not free the slaves if that is what it took to keep the Union together.
    Yep, I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    By your logic, the American colonies started the Revolutionary War when they issued the Declaration of Independence.
    Now that would be rather silly considering that the DoI was not issued until AFTER the Revolutionary war had already started. Don't really know how you get the idea that what I have said would apply to such a silly scenario.
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 10-14-10 at 07:56 PM.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  10. #200
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 11:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I don't understand the first question.
    It was a sort of "what would you do if you were President, Congress, and the Court system all in one." question - which you more or less answered with the main body of your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    The 14th Amendment is fine. I have no problem with dual citizenship, but people must be aware that they are citizens of both the states and the US government.
    Hmm. Oddly enough, I seems that I think of myself as a US citizen first and a Pennsylvania citizen second. I assume that is the reverse of what you would prefer.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I'd remove the 16th and 17th Amendments since it gives the federal government too much power and allows them to turn a blind eye to the restrictions that are in the Constitution while restoring the power stolen from the states by the federal government back to the states.
    I don’t know the constitution well enough to determine if other issues would result from such a change, but the idea seems sound – I dislike the “federal gov > state gov” being used so often on too many issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I'd modify the 24th Amendment by removing the section about President and Vice President since the office of the Executive represents the states and not the people as the primary duties of the Executive is in the defense of the states.
    Hmm, again, my limited constitutional knowledge bites me in the ass…But I can’t see much wrong with that, it seems to fit with one of my basic views – namely that, the Federal gov (and in most cases, the state govs) is too large and invasive.
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I'd add an Amendment that reinforces that the federal government can only pass laws that affect their territory only or pursuant to one of the other delegated powers and every bill must specify which clause in the Constitution that it has a basis plus only deal with one issue. This Amendment would also add in a treason penalty to any member of government that fails to live up to their oath of office.
    The first part seems somewhat reasonable, but the second might be an issue, depending on other factors – can you imagine how many treason accusations would be flying around D. C., at least with the current political/social climate? I doubt anything would ever get done…wait, maybe this is a good idea after all.
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I'd add in a balanced budget amendment and line item veto. Part of the balanced budget amendment would be the requirement that any spending bills of money will follow the amendment regarding specification and one subject.
    Seems good in theory, but I don’t know enough to determine what other repercussions would result, if any.
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    The next Amendment would be the abolishment of political parties, special interest groups, lobbyists, and corporate fund raising with a penalty of treason against the people of the United States for failing to adhere to the amendment.
    I don’t know if that would violate the 1st or not – didn’t someone argue that political parties and all those others fall under it’s free speech protections?
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    My final Amendment would specify exactly how a state can leave the Union of States peaceably. The amendment would cover how much the state has to pay to the federal government to any lands owned by the federal government and their share of the deficit.
    Hmm…

    I don’t entirely agree with your apparent underlying theme of “states need to be FAR more independent”. I like the idea of most people thinking of themselves first as US citizens and second as *insert state here* citizens. I think that is a positive. I’m not sure you agree

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    I'd leave holidays up to each of the states and force government workers to work them or if they still want to take the day off they must do so for free. No more extra holidays just because you're a government employee over what anyone in the private sector gets.
    Seems reasonable, given that I think you would have far fewer Fed workers in each state anyway. “When in Rome…”
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

Page 20 of 21 FirstFirst ... 1018192021 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •