View Poll Results: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

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  • Yes

    46 42.99%
  • No

    61 57.01%
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Thread: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

  1. #121
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Ah so because I live in Wisconsin and not Europe that means I'm profiting? Is that really your argument?
    Yes. You live in a structure. That structure is built upon land. Land is valuable. The land that your home is built upon belonged to someone before we killed them and took it. You live on stolen land. The place where you work is built on stolen land. The stores where you shop are built on stolen land. Your entire life occurs on stolen land. So yes, you are ****ing profiting from the theft of that land.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So you're argument is that it's OK to honor tyrants as long as a nation somehow benefited from the tyrant?
    Yep. As a matter of fact, I'd say there wasn't a single tyrant or war criminal that someone didn't think of as a national hero and, more importantly, vice versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Maybe Israel should have Adolf Hitler Day. After all, the state probably wouldn't exist if not for him.
    I think the Jews should feel free to do whatever the Hell they like with their own country. I seriously doubt you're going to find many that believe Hitler did them any favors.

    Besides, Colombus didn't kill millions of his own people. He killed millions of aliens. I don't expect Indians to celebrate Colombus Day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I realize that. Let's be clear, I am not trying to be revisionist. At the same time, we cannot hold modern nations to the standards of the past. Just because prior colonial powers now have the luxury of being conscientious doesn't mean they are employing an ends-justifies-the-means mentality. The true test surely must be that they don't commit the same acts again, and by that standard there are still a host of nations who engage in the same behaviours, of which yours is one; and yes, Canada is another. I wasn't trying to sidestep that.
    That's just the thing, though. They have the luxury of being conscientious because they committed those acts. They have that luxury because they are wealthy, and they are wealthy because they robbed South America, Africa, and Asia blind for centuries. They can claim to have all of the moral superiority in the world because they're "not doing it anymore", but the fact of the matter is that they did it for centuries, got rich and fat off the lifeblood of indigenous peoples, and then abandoned their colonies when it became inconvenient to maintain them-- leaving them in the current sorry state that they now enjoy, and that those rich colonial powers so dearly enjoy clucking their tongues and throwing table scraps at to assuage their tender liberal consciences. I'm sorry if their expressions of regret do not strike me as particularly sincere while they are still enjoying the power their stolen wealth has given them.

    And I didn't use Canada as an example to tweak your nose because you're Canadian. I used Canada as an example because they're among the most fair-minded governments on the planet. You should know that there is no rebuke in my words, because I do not condemn the behaviors our governments engage in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Who is this collective "our" that you are talking about? I never told my government that it was okay to rape and pillage; I never had a hand in the power plays that have gone on even during my life time and the ones unfolding now; I can't control the manufacturing sector that exploits foreign workers aside from not buying their cheap crap (which I already don't); it is not my fault that my so-called representative government is a pack of thieving, lying, neo-imperialists.
    My "our" in this case does not refer to our nation, but to our species. I am referring to the whole of the First World outsourcing its cheap, dirty, and dangerous labor to the Third World-- where they know that they are supporting slavery and exploitation-- and the endless brutal civil wars and ethnic cleansing campaigns in Eastern Europe, Southern Asia, and almost all of Africa. We haven't ended any of these practices; we have only distanced ourselves from them so that we don't get our pristine white gloves dirty. Our species has made tremendous advancements in the past two centuries, and I would be the last person to seek to diminish those, but the basic primate impulses that drive Man's inhumanity to Man remain untouched. As far as that is concerned, the only thing that has changed is the theater and the lines of battle; we have always been at war with Eastasia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I have zero power to do anything about it. I can only accept your "our" insofar as being an indictment against government and those who support such actions. I am not guilty by virtue of being Canadian anymore than you are guilty for simply being American; but that does not excuse the "it's always been this way and it's human nature" mentality. You are human and therefore you can choose just like anyone else, and you are choosing to side with the status quo.
    You are Canadian and thus you are Canada. We all bear responsibility for the actions of our people. And yes, I can choose what I want for our people, like you have. But I think you are hurting yourself by pursuing something that is both unachievable and undesirable, and I think that the more our people embrace your goals, the more they will be damaged by them. I am not choosing the status quo; I am choosing advancement along more fruitful lines, along lines that will preserve our power and our wealth for as long as possible, and along lines that will leave us prepared for recovery when our time runs out. I am choosing what is possible.

  2. #122
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ned Racine View Post
    How about a Statue to the First Arawak Indian Female who gave Syphillis to a Spanish sailor .
    Are you sure it wasn't the other way around?

  3. #123
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Hispaniola. The first European to land in North America (excluding the Vikings) was John Cabot, in 1497.
    Officially yes but there is now evidence that europeans probably strayed here long before that. There's even evidence of Chinese visitors on the west coast (round Chinese anchors found.)

  4. #124
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Most of our holidays that honor people, those people were racists, greedy, and murderers. Look at Lincoln and his war that caused over 600k dead that were civilians and soldiers alike. He hated non-whites and he was a lawyer for the railroads. His family got rich off of the transcontinental railroad.
    You're blaming the civil war on Lincoln? Are you serious?

    Yeah he hated non-whites so much he freed the slaves.

    Much in revisionist history to suit your prejudices?

  5. #125
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Are you sure it wasn't the other way around?
    Considering syphillis originates from the Americas, it's probably not likely it was the other way round.
    So follow me into the desert
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  6. #126
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    You're blaming the civil war on Lincoln? Are you serious?
    South Carolina seceded on December 20, 1860, Major Anderson invaded South Carolina on December 26, 1860 when he moved his troops from Fort Moultrie on Sullivan's Island to Ft. Sumter in the center of Charleston Harbor. Lincoln sent the Star of the West in January of 1861 to resupply Ft. Sumter and invaded South Carolina's waters. On April 12, a fleet of US Navy ships again invaded South Carolina's waters and attempted to enter the harbor. Lincoln refused to meet with southern diplomats for a peaceful resolution in the months leading up to the defense of Charleston Harbor by the South Carolina State Guard. Lincoln stated in his first inaugural address that if he couldn't collect the taxes, under the Morrell Tariff, from southern ports he would invade and go to war.

    In doing this there needs to be no bloodshed or violence, and there shall be none unless it be forced upon the national authority. The power confided to me will be used to hold, occupy, and possess the property and places belonging to the Government and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion, no using of force against or among the people anywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Yeah he hated non-whites so much he freed the slaves.
    What slaves did he free since the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in areas not under Union control? Proper credit for freeing the slaves goes to Andrew Johnson the seventeenth President of the United States since the 14th Amendment was ratified during his term.

    Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana, (except the Parishes of St. Bernard, Plaquemines, Jefferson, St. John, St. Charles, St. James Ascension, Assumption, Terrebonne, Lafourche, St. Mary, St. Martin, and Orleans, including the City of New Orleans) Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia, (except the forty-eight counties designated as West Virginia, and also the counties of Berkley, Accomac, Northampton, Elizabeth City, York, Princess Ann, and Norfolk, including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth[)], and which excepted parts, are for the present, left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued.
    If you notice in the above list that there are exceptions to the proclamation. Those areas, at the time of the proclamation, were under Union control. He freed not a single slave in areas where he could. Seward and others commented that the proclamation was a symbolic act since Lincoln lacked the authority to issue such a thing under the Constitution. Lincoln only issued the proclamation to keep England, France, and other European countries from recognizing the Confederacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmaO01 View Post
    Much in revisionist history to suit your prejudices?
    What revisionism is it when the facts bear out what I said is true? Revisionism of Lincoln and his war began after he was assassinated. He was hated by everyone when he was alive.
    Last edited by The_Patriot; 10-12-10 at 09:20 AM.

  7. #127
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It astounds me that we still honor this horrible, horrible man with a holiday. He was a greedy, racist murderer. Why not commemorate someone or something worthwhile instead?
    Columbus lived an interesting life. He screwed a lot of people over and was screwed over several times after his first voyage. I can't say he was a noble or decent man, but he did set the stage of the creation of the US.

  8. #128
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGirlNextDoor View Post
    I think we should have a Lewis and Clark day instead.
    Our holiday should last as long as their expidition.

  9. #129
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Our holiday should last as long as their expidition.
    That's a good idea. At least the government wouldn't be able to do anything since it would be shut down in observance of the holiday.

  10. #130
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Columbus lived an interesting life. He screwed a lot of people over and was screwed over several times after his first voyage. I can't say he was a noble or decent man, but he did set the stage of the creation of the US.
    Wow a liberal who gets it and can understands that it's about a single event in time.

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