View Poll Results: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

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  • Yes

    46 42.99%
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Thread: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

  1. #111
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Thread Godwined.
    It's only Godwined if you exaggerate something by citing Hitler. In this case, it isn't an exaggeration. Christopher Columbus literally WAS every bit as vile of a human being as Hitler was.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-12-10 at 02:04 AM.
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  2. #112
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Yes. If solely because he did not name the continent "Vespucci."
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  3. #113
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Most Portuguese, Spanish and Italian navigators at the time had a better estimate of the size of the Earth than Columbus and they had no illusion as to its "roundness." But, Columbus correctly observed that there must be something "over there" and had the courage of his convictions to go find out what it was. He was wrong about almost everything which makes him among the very best of humanity.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    I don't think anyone deserves a holiday, bar none. Get rid of all of them.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #115
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    What is the point to Christopher Columbus day?
    What are we honoring?
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  6. #116
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    American Indians made slaves of each other.
    Good point and many either don't know or ignore the fact that many of the Salves brought here from Africa were captured and sold by other Negros way back then but today it was all about the white Slavers and it was just not true.

    What happened on this continent was despicable and should forgotten, because it is part of the history we need to avoid any repeat of.

  7. #117
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by peepnklown View Post
    What is the point to Christopher Columbus day?
    What are we honoring?
    An Italian fellow with a poor sense of direction, why wouldn't you want to honour him?
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  8. #118
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It's only Godwined if you exaggerate something by citing Hitler. In this case, it isn't an exaggeration. Christopher Columbus literally WAS every bit as vile of a human being as Hitler was.
    You are exaggerating, however. I mean, maybe you could really consider him like a slave trading Ramiro d'Orco (even then, there is exaggeration), but ...Hitler?
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 10-12-10 at 04:25 AM.
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  9. #119
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Be shocked to hear you name one. All the ones that are known for being peaceful this century were colonial powers last century. The last veterans of World War II are still drawing breath. Hell, even Gandhi's India is a nuclear power. Even Canada, diplomatic mild-mannered Canada, usually jumps at the chance to get a piece of our action.
    I realize that. Let's be clear, I am not trying to be revisionist. At the same time, we cannot hold modern nations to the standards of the past. Just because prior colonial powers now have the luxury of being conscientious doesn't mean they are employing an ends-justifies-the-means mentality. The true test surely must be that they don't commit the same acts again, and by that standard there are still a host of nations who engage in the same behaviours, of which yours is one; and yes, Canada is another. I wasn't trying to sidestep that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    I'm not glossing over the efforts that we have made to change human nature. If anything, I am calling attention to them because I think our failures are instructional. We haven't stopped exploiting aliens for every drop of sweat we can wring out of them, and we haven't stopped discarding them thoughtlessly when we're done with them. We just stopped doing it in our own backyard, where we would have to watch. Our treatment of aliens hasn't improved any more than our treatment of livestock; we've just removed ourself far enough from the process that we've forgotten where our meat comes from. This newfound "social conscience" of ours is a privileged delusion at best, and blatant self-serving hypocrisy at worst.
    Who is this collective "our" that you are talking about? I never told my government that it was okay to rape and pillage; I never had a hand in the power plays that have gone on even during my life time and the ones unfolding now; I can't control the manufacturing sector that exploits foreign workers aside from not buying their cheap crap (which I already don't); it is not my fault that my so-called representative government is a pack of thieving, lying, neo-imperialists. I have zero power to do anything about it. I can only accept your "our" insofar as being an indictment against government and those who support such actions. I am not guilty by virtue of being Canadian anymore than you are guilty for simply being American; but that does not excuse the "it's always been this way and it's human nature" mentality. You are human and therefore you can choose just like anyone else, and you are choosing to side with the status quo.

    This collective "our" you use bypasses the many people who are very well aware of our instructional failures but don't know how to stop the government from needlessly committing them again. I don't think that makes those people bleeding heart liars. It makes them caught between a rock and a hard place. Things have changed since the dark ages, so surely they will keep changing and hopefully keep improving.

    Do you think if I could stop paying taxes to this corrupt and defunct system, I would? Hell yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    I'm not interested in the lie. I'm perfectly happy celebrating Colombus Day on the basis of slavery and genocide. It's all the poor bleeding hearts that have to lie to themselves to get out of bed in the morning.
    Well at least you are honest, if misguided. Perhaps I am just less fatalistic.

  10. #120
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    Re: Does Christopher Columbus deserve a holiday?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    You are exaggerating, however. I mean, maybe you could really consider him like a slave trading Ramiro d'Orco (even then, there is exaggeration), but ...Hitler?
    Or a tyrannical governor.
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