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Thread: A question for members of the Tea Party?

  1. #31
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    Re: A question for members of the Tea Party?

    Mg,

    Taarp is what was the impetus behind the forming of the grass rootz movememt known as the tea party. We were all sick of the spending etc. This however was that proverbial straw. And it was under bush.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: A question for members of the Tea Party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Where do you stand on LGBT issues? Do you support or are against things like Same Sex Marriage, spousal benefits, adoption rights, DADT, anti-discrimination laws? And why?
    I'd post by Psycho and Rev basically said everything I'd have said.

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    Re: A question for members of the Tea Party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star
    Let me ask you this, why do you think that people should be forced to conform to your religious beliefs?
    I don't think that's necessarily a religious construct. It could very easily be a social one. I would think an unwed mother and father living within the same confines would be more suited than any homosexual couple with any other varying degrees about them. Religion would be against two unwed partners raising a conceived child - hence the phrase "living in sin".

    Also, your Fourteenth Amendment argument isn't even close to holding water. There is absolutely no legal precedent.

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    Re: A question for members of the Tea Party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Exactly.

    Which makes me wonder where in the hell were they during the Bush years?
    First, the very first TEA party protest WAS aimed at George W. Bush. The February 27th 2009 Tea party Protests were in part against the TARP bill signed by GWB.

    Second, while spending has quickly became an equal if not greater focus the original focus was much larger on taxes, such as the second TEA Party protest held on Tax day that was focused singularly on taxes. George Bush, for all his issues that consevatives had on him, was pretty decent with taxes. On the flip side, Obama had already made statements at that point about letting the Bush Tax Cuts expire, talked about the notion of possibly raising taxes in general as being necessary, and had begun to raise other taxes not counting the income tax. So the notion that it was at the very least likely, if not garaunteed, that inevitably taxes would be raised was much more prevelant under Obama than under Bush.

    Third, the Tea Party is about 50% "republicans" and about 50% independents, libertarians, and democrats that are conservativel eaning. The latter half WAS extremely critical openly of Bush and spending during his term. The other 50% had a large portin of them being also critical of Bush during his years but less loud and vocal. To be upset about this and ONLY focus ones anger or indignation towards the tea party is laughable and disingenuous though. You can look at the Anti-War movement currently which is a relative blip on the radar compared to even 2007 despite Obama simply following Bush's plan in Iraq and actually ramping up in Afghanistan. You can look at the immigration movement and how relatively quiet they've been despite that the Obama administration has not done anything significantly greater than the Bush administration did. It is common in politics, as it is in every other walk of life, that when your guys are in power your issues with them are dealt with in more quiet and back channel ways because you DO want it fixed but you realize your issues with "your" guys would be even BIGGER issues with the "other" guys.

    Fourth, there was a decent bit of conservative outcry over things like the perscription drug bill, no child left behind, and TARP under Bush. In regards to other spending things such as the War on Terror, there was begrudging acceptance due to at least believing that national defense is a legitimate government duty. The notion of buying car companies, providing health care, bailing out wallstreet, worthless "service" project funding, and other such things NOT being part of what the federal government constitutionally should be doing adds to the indignation.

    Think of it this way. Lets say your family is strapped for cash. If your spouse goes out and uses what little money you have on food but gets relatively expensive name brand food instead of generic brands, you may say "hey honey, next time can you go for the cheaper alternative. Money's tight". You're not likely to make a huge fit about it though because hey, they're spending it on fooda nd you all need food. However if they instead go out and come back with a new dress and high heels, or with 3 XBox games, you're probably going to have a much bigger issue and much more vocal issue because they're using it on luxuries not its intended purpose.

    Finally I'll point out that the Tea Party, since its formation and momentum, has NOT been focusing just on democrats. They HAVE been critical of Republicans, they HAVE gone after republican politicians. While the movement may've not been formed and loosely organized under Bush, using that as somehow a sign that this is solely a republican entity or something just born out of hate for Obama is a bit transparent when its obvious their issues are with a mentality and an ideological view point regardless of whether they see that view point in a person with a (D) or an (R) next to their name.

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    Re: A question for members of the Tea Party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    First, the very first TEA party protest WAS aimed at George W. Bush. The February 27th 2009 Tea party Protests were in part against the TARP bill signed by GWB.

    Second, while spending has quickly became an equal if not greater focus the original focus was much larger on taxes, such as the second TEA Party protest held on Tax day that was focused singularly on taxes. George Bush, for all his issues that consevatives had on him, was pretty decent with taxes. On the flip side, Obama had already made statements at that point about letting the Bush Tax Cuts expire, talked about the notion of possibly raising taxes in general as being necessary, and had begun to raise other taxes not counting the income tax. So the notion that it was at the very least likely, if not garaunteed, that inevitably taxes would be raised was much more prevelant under Obama than under Bush.

    Third, the Tea Party is about 50% "republicans" and about 50% independents, libertarians, and democrats that are conservativel eaning. The latter half WAS extremely critical openly of Bush and spending during his term. The other 50% had a large portin of them being also critical of Bush during his years but less loud and vocal. To be upset about this and ONLY focus ones anger or indignation towards the tea party is laughable and disingenuous though. You can look at the Anti-War movement currently which is a relative blip on the radar compared to even 2007 despite Obama simply following Bush's plan in Iraq and actually ramping up in Afghanistan. You can look at the immigration movement and how relatively quiet they've been despite that the Obama administration has not done anything significantly greater than the Bush administration did. It is common in politics, as it is in every other walk of life, that when your guys are in power your issues with them are dealt with in more quiet and back channel ways because you DO want it fixed but you realize your issues with "your" guys would be even BIGGER issues with the "other" guys.

    Fourth, there was a decent bit of conservative outcry over things like the perscription drug bill, no child left behind, and TARP under Bush. In regards to other spending things such as the War on Terror, there was begrudging acceptance due to at least believing that national defense is a legitimate government duty. The notion of buying car companies, providing health care, bailing out wallstreet, worthless "service" project funding, and other such things NOT being part of what the federal government constitutionally should be doing adds to the indignation.

    Think of it this way. Lets say your family is strapped for cash. If your spouse goes out and uses what little money you have on food but gets relatively expensive name brand food instead of generic brands, you may say "hey honey, next time can you go for the cheaper alternative. Money's tight". You're not likely to make a huge fit about it though because hey, they're spending it on fooda nd you all need food. However if they instead go out and come back with a new dress and high heels, or with 3 XBox games, you're probably going to have a much bigger issue and much more vocal issue because they're using it on luxuries not its intended purpose.

    Finally I'll point out that the Tea Party, since its formation and momentum, has NOT been focusing just on democrats. They HAVE been critical of Republicans, they HAVE gone after republican politicians. While the movement may've not been formed and loosely organized under Bush, using that as somehow a sign that this is solely a republican entity or something just born out of hate for Obama is a bit transparent when its obvious their issues are with a mentality and an ideological view point regardless of whether they see that view point in a person with a (D) or an (R) next to their name.
    you make good points, however, what taxes did obama raise before Feb 2009?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: A question for members of the Tea Party?

    The February 2009 protest was agaisnt TARP and the ARRA along with the potential for taxes being raised based on Obama's statements during the election and after regarding views on the Bush Tax Cuts and the notion that we have Democrats in power in both the Congress and the Presidency with enormous spending happening and a realization that somehow these things would have to be paid for, which traditionally with democrats is raising taxes.

    The April 15th one was focused almost singularly on taxes. It was also after the point in where Obama had laid out his budget and proposed plan for numerous tax increases on individuals and business over the next decade. There was already talk of Carbon Credits, cap and trade, and universal health care at that point as well that was beginning to make people wary. Now you can suggest that people were overreacting and jumping at boogeymans based on hindsight. At the same time, one can look at history with regards to Democratic controlled congresses or Presidents as well as what was proposed by Obama and/or Democrats rather than simply what actually came to pass and suggest that while they may've over reacted their reaction may well have also been the reason why lighter, but still there, tax issues may've came to pass when in the end they hadn't.

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    Re: A question for members of the Tea Party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The February 2009 protest was agaisnt TARP and the ARRA along with the potential for taxes being raised based on Obama's statements during the election and after regarding views on the Bush Tax Cuts and the notion that we have Democrats in power in both the Congress and the Presidency with enormous spending happening and a realization that somehow these things would have to be paid for, which traditionally with democrats is raising taxes.

    The April 15th one was focused almost singularly on taxes. It was also after the point in where Obama had laid out his budget and proposed plan for numerous tax increases on individuals and business over the next decade. There was already talk of Carbon Credits, cap and trade, and universal health care at that point as well that was beginning to make people wary. Now you can suggest that people were overreacting and jumping at boogeymans based on hindsight. At the same time, one can look at history with regards to Democratic controlled congresses or Presidents as well as what was proposed by Obama and/or Democrats rather than simply what actually came to pass and suggest that while they may've over reacted their reaction may well have also been the reason why lighter, but still there, tax issues may've came to pass when in the end they hadn't.
    you stated he raised taxes by feb of 2009, while he did not.

    additionally, i took a look at alot of websites and could not find one picture a person carrying an anti bush sign, and you claimed the first protest was against bush. i did, however, see plenty of anti obama signs, and anti pelosi signs. let's be real here.....the protest was against obama, who at that point had done nothing to deserve it. at least tax wise.

    and i don't recall obama laying out a plan that called for numerous tax increases on individuals OR businesses. he has called for targeted increases, while at the same time providing breaks for small business. in fact, didn't obama give us a tax rebate?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: A question for members of the Tea Party?

    My apologizes there, that was an issue on my part. I take it you're speaking about this paragraph:

    Second, while spending has quickly became an equal if not greater focus the original focus was much larger on taxes, such as the second TEA Party protest held on Tax day that was focused singularly on taxes. George Bush, for all his issues that consevatives had on him, was pretty decent with taxes. On the flip side, Obama had already made statements at that point about letting the Bush Tax Cuts expire, talked about the notion of possibly raising taxes in general as being necessary, and had begun to raise other taxes not counting the income tax. So the notion that it was at the very least likely, if not garaunteed, that inevitably taxes would be raised was much more prevelant under Obama than under Bush
    I bolded something that seems to be a mistake on YOUR part and then I'll speak to mine. This paragraph where I made mention of Obama raising taxes was concerning the SECOND protest, not the first, which was the April 15th protest.

    Now, on my mistake, you are correct. I was mistaken in regards to Obama having already raised taxes. He had not. He had simply at this point submited a budget that had numerous tax increases slated for the to go into affect over the next decade in time. However, they had not actually been signed into law or passed yet. So no, Obama had not at the time of the second TEA Party protest increased any taxes that I am aware of. He had however proposed and had begun the push for numerous tax increases at this point. My mistake.

    -edit- Actually read the post below. Not really my mistake. He HAD raised a tax long prior to the April 15th date and even before the February date. However, my thought initially was much more to the budget then to the tobacco tax so the above still generally applies

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    Re: A question for members of the Tea Party?

    Specifically Obama called for:

    The Bush Tax cuts to expire
    Itemized Deduction to be removed
    Capital gains to be hiked
    Superfund taxes to be reinstated
    Repealing LIFO
    Excise taxes on Gulf oil and gas

    And others.

    Oh, and just for fun...

    Obama did raise the Federal tax on cigerettes from $.39 to $1.01 per pack as well as taxes on other tobacco products as well. This was signed into law on February 9th of 2009 and actually raised in April.

    Tax foundation's comments on the signing
    Politifact pointing it out as well
    Wall Street Journal confirming the early 2009 signing of it and talking about its impacts

    So yeah, he did raise a tax prior to the first protest as well.

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    Re: A question for members of the Tea Party?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    My apologizes there, that was an issue on my part. I take it you're speaking about this paragraph:



    I bolded something that seems to be a mistake on YOUR part and then I'll speak to mine. This paragraph where I made mention of Obama raising taxes was concerning the SECOND protest, not the first, which was the April 15th protest.

    Now, on my mistake, you are correct. I was mistaken in regards to Obama having already raised taxes. He had not. He had simply at this point submited a budget that had numerous tax increases slated for the to go into affect over the next decade in time. However, they had not actually been signed into law or passed yet. So no, Obama had not at the time of the second TEA Party protest increased any taxes that I am aware of. He had however proposed and had begun the push for numerous tax increases at this point. My mistake.

    -edit- Actually read the post below. Not really my mistake. He HAD raised a tax long prior to the April 15th date and even before the February date. However, my thought initially was much more to the budget then to the tobacco tax so the above still generally applies
    then i misunderstood your intent......because raising a cigarette tax is certainly NOT what they were protesting, and to say that it was, and to say they were also protesting bush, is disengenuous.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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