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Should min wage be removed?

Should min wage be removed?

  • Total voters
    68
UtahBill said:
How many of those businesses will just keep the money? They certainly won't increase hiring beyond their needs. so those on welfare get nothing...and some can't live without it. Granted, many are welfare cheats, but not most of them..
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that is the intent. they keep the money to pay for the cost of upping the minimum wage.
 
UtahBill said:
How many of those businesses will just keep the money? They certainly won't increase hiring beyond their needs. so those on welfare get nothing...and some can't live without it. Granted, many are welfare cheats, but not most of them..
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Sadly it appears that many companies are being run by smooth talkers and nothing else. Their business sense is not any good and they do not look at employees like humans.
 
OscarB63 said:
that is the intent. they keep the money to pay for the cost of upping the minimum wage.
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but what does that have to do with welfare? you would cut off ALL welfare?
 
mikhail said:
No im saying there is a limit to production,also the kind of income inequalities your talking about seem disasterous and also i feel technology(and often the replacement jobs you talk of) will make jobs obsolete at such a rate society will struggle to ajust.

I really need to go to bed now but i would like to take up this debate with you some other time if thats cool with you? nice talking to ya
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Sure thing, but just look up the Luddite Fallacy, and hopefully you'll see that the number of jobs in the world is not static.
 
OscarB63 said:
except for those physically/mentally unable to work.
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I knew you had a heart, somewhere...:2razz:

I have a friend with a Downs Syndrome sister, about age 60, who is living in a group home now that her parents have passed on. She has a JOB, has for decades....

I have a brother,about the same age, has only worked 2 years in his whole miserable life, and that was in the military....
 
Does more production lower the cost of final goods? Yes.
So then leaving people out of production would lead to overall less production which would lead to an overall higher price of goods.

A company will only hire someone if he is willing to work for slightly less than his marginal productivity (otherwise the company couldn't make a profit on hiring the person).
Minimum wage sets the lowest possible wage so that if a person's marginal productivity is at or below that marginal productivity, he will not be hired.
So then minimum wage forces some amount of people out of work when it is instituted.

Because minimum wage forces people out of work, production will be lower than it could have been, so resulting higher prices for all of us.

So we get a higher price of goods and the producers that are affected get left out of work. Who exactly wins in this situation then?
 
UtahBill said:
I knew you had a heart, somewhere...:2razz:

I have a friend with a Downs Syndrome sister, about age 60, who is living in a group home now that her parents have passed on. She has a JOB, has for decades....

I have a brother,about the same age, has only worked 2 years in his whole miserable life, and that was in the military....
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that's my biggest complaint with welfare, in breeds laziness. there are plenty of jobs out there, if people would be willing to do them. if your friend's sister can hold down a job then there are very few people that can't.

unless you are just a complete retard, there are menial jobs that you can be trained to do.
unless you are completely paralyzed, the are non-physical jobs you can do.

too many people refuse to work because they are "too good" to settle for a particular job.

I realize that it is embarassing for you to work at walmart when you have a masters degree in Mandarin, but all the translator jobs at the Chinese embassy are filled.
 
phattonez said:
Does more production lower the cost of final goods? Yes.
So then leaving people out of production would lead to overall less production which would lead to an overall higher price of goods.

A company will only hire someone if he is willing to work for slightly less than his marginal productivity (otherwise the company couldn't make a profit on hiring the person).
Minimum wage sets the lowest possible wage so that if a person's marginal productivity is at or below that marginal productivity, he will not be hired.
So then minimum wage forces some amount of people out of work when it is instituted.

Because minimum wage forces people out of work, production will be lower than it could have been, so resulting higher prices for all of us.

So we get a higher price of goods and the producers that are affected get left out of work. Who exactly wins in this situation then?
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How does consumer demand fit into your post? Isn't production determined by demand more than anything else?
 
UtahBill said:
Hey, I thought "mentally unable to work" is why we have officers in the military....:2razz:
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you got it twisted.

we have Privates for those mentally unable to work
we have Officers for those physically unable to work
we have NCOs because somebody has to do all the work.
 
UtahBill said:
How does consumer demand fit into your post? Isn't production determined by demand more than anything else?
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The more people you have working, the more production you have, and vice versa. Leaving people out of work necessarily cuts down your production.
 
UtahBill said:
How does consumer demand fit into your post? Isn't production determined by demand more than anything else?
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Production does determine demand, but a minimum wage further promotes automation that replaces many workers with just a few. It's a lot cheaper for a company like Ford to replace line workers with robots to do all the welding and most of the assembly.
 
phattonez said:
The more people you have working, the more production you have, and vice versa. Leaving people out of work necessarily cuts down your production.
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but a warehouse full of unsold product doesn't lead to profit.....
 
UtahBill said:
but a warehouse full of unsold product doesn't lead to profit.....
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What does that have to do with minimum wage?

EDIT: Nvm, I get it. That would lead to lower prices, would it not?
 
The_Patriot said:
Production does determine demand, but a minimum wage further promotes automation that replaces many workers with just a few. It's a lot cheaper for a company like Ford to replace line workers with robots to do all the welding and most of the assembly.
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I am all for machinery replacing people, it moves humans up the evolutionary scale. I am an anti-luddite, and will be until they figure out to make robots that replace retirees....then, they are getting too close to home...
 
phattonez said:
What does that have to do with minimum wage?

EDIT: Nvm, I get it. That would lead to lower prices, would it not?
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Certainly, one hell of a clearance sale. My point was, without consumer demand for the product, minimum wage is irrelevant...
Nobody works....
 
UtahBill said:
Certainly, one hell of a clearance sale. My point was, without consumer demand for the product, minimum wage is irrelevant...
Nobody works....
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When do people stop demanding? If people are producing and getting paid, then they are going to want to buy. If they want to buy more, they'll produce more.
 
OscarB63 said:
you got it twisted.

we have Privates for those mentally unable to work
we have Officers for those physically unable to work
we have NCOs because somebody has to do all the work.
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I was an E5 in Vietnam. I could tell half a dozen really good stories on the Ensign I worked for. He was one that was unfit for thinking. Finally, his boss relieved him of any responsibilities related to our ET shop....
 
phattonez said:
When do people stop demanding? If people are producing and getting paid, then they are going to want to buy. If they want to buy more, they'll produce more.
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They stop demanding when, for whatever reason, they can't afford to buy the product...current not so popular reasons, recession, unemployment, etc.
You answered for me in the part about "getting paid". No money, no buying....oh wait, I forgot credit cards, but that is a different issue...
 
UtahBill said:
They stop demanding when, for whatever reason, they can't afford to buy the product...current not so popular reasons, recession, unemployment, etc.
You answered for me in the part about "getting paid". No money, no buying....oh wait, I forgot credit cards, but that is a different issue...
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Who wouldn't have the money to buy any products?
 
phattonez said:
Who wouldn't have the money to buy any products?
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correct, further worsening the circle of misery....it isn't as simple as one group of workers at one factory making one product....everything overlaps....but you knew that..
 
phattonez said:
Who wouldn't have the money to buy any products?
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wait, 2 ways interpret your post....
Who won't have money to buy any products? Very few, probably, but essential products may be the only products selling, and that part of the economy is stable. non essentials are where the big money is...
 
TurtleDude said:
define that-if it means a city enticing a company to relocate or build a new factory in that city in return for tax breaks that is really a quid pro quo that the city sees as benefiting its citizens and I don't have a problem with that. its like a city without a pro football team telling a football team that it will build the team a state of the art arena if the team locates in the city.

the problem is that corporate welfare can mean far more things than welfare given to the untalented or the unproductive and can have some very positive outcomes for the society.
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The problem is that these companies routinely get the tax breaks, then only provide a fraction of the jobs they agree to. The cities are either too scared or too stupid to revoke the break and should definitely do so.
 
tlmorg02 said:
The problem is that these companies routinely get the tax breaks, then only provide a fraction of the jobs they agree to. The cities are either too scared or too stupid to revoke the break and should definitely do so.
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Yeah, what is it. Like most big corporations only pay like 7% in taxes a year....I think.
 
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