View Poll Results: Should min wage be removed?

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  • Yes

    28 31.46%
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Thread: Should min wage be removed?

  1. #261
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    Re: Should min wage be removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    At what current expense though? Goldenboy made the argument that minimum wage ended the elevator boy and brought about automatic elevators so the elevator boys could do other jobs. But he forgot that automatic elevatrors are more expensive, so this scheme would contribute to a shortage of buildings. You have to look at unintended consequences. Besides, what would be more important for those countries is foreign investment. It would bring them up to speed much quicker than internal investment.
    way too simplistic....savings from not having an elevator operator more than pays for added cost for automatic elevators....or we would still have elevator operators....
    You could say that it allows for cheaper buildings, thus more buildings, but we all know that the cost of an elevator is a very small part of any building that requires one.
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    Re: Should min wage be removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    What's the difference? Either way you have a lowest acceptable wage you will work for. Minimum wage does not affect that, just as it does not affect the highest wage that they will pay a new worker.
    There is actually quite a difference. It has to do with how we characterize the labor market. You make the argument that a minimum wage causes a large amount of unemployment because it is a binding price floor in a competitive market. This shows that such a simplistic characterization may not be the most accurate description of labor markets in general.

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    Re: Should min wage be removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by b.larset View Post
    See I need cheaper labor. Right now with alot of people making part time wages they will work full time for less. So if the artificial wage set by the government was lifted I could expand. Right now I have part time help because its tied to the Minimum wage.They would be glad to get it the market will bare lower wages and that in tiurn will help everyone.Especially my customers.

    Why are you even in business?

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    Re: Should min wage be removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    way too simplistic....savings from not having an elevator operator more than pays for added cost for automatic elevators....or we would still have elevator operators....
    You could say that it allows for cheaper buildings, thus more buildings, but we all know that the cost of an elevator is a very small part of any building that requires one.

    Ever had an elevator break and have to call the Otis man?Then there is also required inspections.

  5. #265
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    Re: Should min wage be removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    At what current expense though? Goldenboy made the argument that minimum wage ended the elevator boy and brought about automatic elevators so the elevator boys could do other jobs. But he forgot that automatic elevatrors are more expensive, so this scheme would contribute to a shortage of buildings. You have to look at unintended consequences. Besides, what would be more important for those countries is foreign investment. It would bring them up to speed much quicker than internal investment.
    One could easily make the argument that an automatic elevator has a continually downward sloping average cost curve, and a marginal cost that is always less than this average total cost. Hence, investment into such a cost saving senario would be discouraged because it could not be done without an initial loss, unless of course we gave an incentive to do it...

  6. #266
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    Re: Should min wage be removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    way too simplistic....savings from not having an elevator operator more than pays for added cost for automatic elevators....or we would still have elevator operators....
    No, you are being too simplistic. What if at $4 per hour they are cheaper than an automatic elevator? At $7.50 per hour then the automatic is cheaper. $4 per hour would be a good job for say some 13-year old kid.

    You could say that it allows for cheaper buildings, thus more buildings, but we all know that the cost of an elevator is a very small part of any building that requires one.
    More risk without the potential of more profit means less of something.

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  7. #267
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    Re: Should min wage be removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    There is actually quite a difference. It has to do with how we characterize the labor market. You make the argument that a minimum wage causes a large amount of unemployment because it is a binding price floor in a competitive market. This shows that such a simplistic characterization may not be the most accurate description of labor markets in general.
    I never said large. It only has a large effect on those worst off in society. For the typical middle class schmoe, there would be virtually no effect on his employment opportunities (directly).

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #268
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    Re: Should min wage be removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    One could easily make the argument that an automatic elevator has a continually downward sloping average cost curve, and a marginal cost that is always less than this average total cost. Hence, investment into such a cost saving senario would be discouraged because it could not be done without an initial loss, unless of course we gave an incentive to do it...
    This is basically an argument that people don't take risks or take out loans for future productivity gains. That's nonsense. People take risks all the time. The incentive is a potential profit, and if it was worthwhile, then people would have done it. If it wasn't worthwhile and you needed minimum wage to do it, then the company probably would have made more money staying with the elevator boys rather than going to automatic elevators.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #269
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    Re: Should min wage be removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    No, you are being too simplistic. What if at $4 per hour they are cheaper than an automatic elevator? At $7.50 per hour then the automatic is cheaper. $4 per hour would be a good job for say some 13-year old kid.



    More risk without the potential of more profit means less of something.
    baloney, automation is always preferred. the operator becomes the maintenance guy, or finds other work. inspections are required whether operated automatically or by a person. You can try to complicate the issue all you want, but these are facts.
    Machines don't retire at age 65 and then draw a pension for 20 years. The fewer humans you employ, the better the bottom line...
    You knew that....
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    Re: Should min wage be removed?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    This is basically an argument that people don't take risks or take out loans for future productivity gains. That's nonsense. People take risks all the time. The incentive is a potential profit, and if it was worthwhile, then people would have done it. If it wasn't worthwhile and you needed minimum wage to do it, then the company probably would have made more money staying with the elevator boys rather than going to automatic elevators.
    They might have eventually done it anyways, but a minimum wage increases or creates more incentive to do so. Minimum wage is a policy to steer the market, not create it. Its not like I am saying without the minimum wage there would be no automation of industry, what I am saying is it promotes such a thing.

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