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Thread: Was the fire department right or wrong?

  1. #91
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    Re: Was the fire department right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Yeah well in a publicly funded system whichever fire department is closest just helps.
    In a perfect world, yes. In the real world there are things like police jurisdictions, school districts, city limits, etc that place restricitons on what services can be rendered and where.


    In my very humble opinion I think they should have helped but clearly this is what happens when you privatise a public service. Clearly this is the sort of thing that the general population should be alerted to as a consequence to smaller government and taxes paid.
    except that this public service wasn't "privatized". the city graciously offered to provide service as a courtesy, for a very nominal cost, to those people residing outside of their normal coverage area.

    that fact that this guy refused to purchase this service does not make the FD the bad guys.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Was the fire department right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Hrm.. thats pretty sad. I definitely think it should have been put out. But the thing here is the city is acting like a private business. In my country these services are paid for by local and provincial taxes and everyone is just covered. I can't believe how messed up the American political condition is.
    that is the point you are missing. the city is not acting like a private business. they are covering the people who live inside the area where the city has legal authority.

    the problem is that the city cannot force county residents to pay taxes. and since the county residents don't voluntarily pay a tax to fund a "county FD" they are without coverage. the city has been kind enough to offer them coverage for a ridiculously modest fee.
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  3. #93
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    Re: Was the fire department right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    that is the point you are missing. the city is not acting like a private business. they are covering the people who live inside the area where the city has legal authority.

    the problem is that the city cannot force county residents to pay taxes. and since the county residents don't voluntarily pay a tax to fund a "county FD" they are without coverage. the city has been kind enough to offer them coverage for a ridiculously modest fee.
    Yeah I took that for granted it was a privately owned operation based on how it behaved. Because it behaved similarly. State and federal taxes revenues could be used to subsidize rural services like they are in most countries and it would be cheaper then paying a fee a kin to a private service fee. Couldn't they just put the fire out and take the fee when he had the money?

  4. #94
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    Re: Was the fire department right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Yeah I took that for granted it was a privately owned operation based on how it behaved. Because it behaved similarly. State and federal taxes revenues could be used to subsidize rural services like they are in most countries and it would be cheaper then paying a fee a kin to a private service fee. Couldn't they just put the fire out and take the fee when he had the money?
    that's the point. he had the money, he just didn't want to pay it.

    Which is why I am on the side of the fire department in this case. had this guy been unable to pay, then I think they should have helped him. He chose not to pay, which is why I feel that they had no moral obligation to help him.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  5. #95
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    Re: Was the fire department right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    that's the point. he had the money, he just didn't want to pay it.

    Which is why I am on the side of the fire department in this case. had this guy been unable to pay, then I think they should have helped him. He chose not to pay, which is why I feel that they had no moral obligation to help him.
    Funny he would expect to have service then .. he doesn't pay taxes to cover it .. assuming he understands that. Yes.. I agree but I still could not sit in a fire truck and watch his house burn down. Americans expect to not pay taxes and still get services .. what would be the cause of that? Stupidity.. well yes but a further misunderstanding that taxes are not a waste of money but rather an investment in your collective social well being is being confounded by confusion spread by extreme right wing anti government and taxation retoric. Other then that I could only suggest stupidity.

  6. #96
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    Re: Was the fire department right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Funny he would expect to have service then .. he doesn't pay taxes to cover it .. assuming he understands that. Yes.. I agree but I still could not sit in a fire truck and watch his house burn down. Americans expect to not pay taxes and still get services .. what would be the cause of that? Stupidity..
    Yes, he understands that. The city sends him a bill, a reminder bill and makes a follow up phone call to collect the fee. Additionally, he had a previous run in with the fire department three years prior. That time the FD let him skate and pay the $75.00 fee the day after they responded to his fire. This almost certainly led him to beleive he could continue with this practice and save some money. It's kind of like only paying for insurance after you have the loss and expecting the insurance company to reimburse you.

    a further misunderstanding that taxes are not a waste of money but rather an investment in your collective social well being is being confounded by confusion spread by extreme right wing anti government and taxation retoric. Other then that I could only suggest stupidity.
    Yeah.. It was the far right wing that caused him to believe that he was entitled to fire protection even though he didn't pay for it. Yeah, that's it. Sure sounds like a far right wing idea to me.
    Last edited by buck; 10-06-10 at 01:51 PM.

  7. #97
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    Re: Was the fire department right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by buck View Post

    Yeah.. It was the far right wing that caused him to believe that he was entitled to fire protection even though he didn't pay for it. Yeah, that's it. Sure sounds like a far right wing idea to me.
    Well what else would cause an average person to be confused? Other then a misunderstanding I don't understand what else would cause that sort of confounded logic outside of outright stupidity. What else in society would cause a person to think he was covered by what is generally a public service?

  8. #98
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    Re: Was the fire department right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Well what else would cause an average person to be confused? Other then a misunderstanding I don't understand what else would cause that sort of confounded logic outside of outright stupidity. What else in society would cause a person to think he was covered by what is generally a public service?
    Since you want to make this overly partisan to the point of being dumb, maybe he saw how democrats constantly take from those that provide to give to those who either can't or won't. Maybe it was just a continuation of the democrat's constant call for a nanny state. That belief was solidified when the fire department responded to his fire three years ago even though he hadn't paid the fee yet.

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    Re: Was the fire department right or wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Well what else would cause an average person to be confused? Other then a misunderstanding I don't understand what else would cause that sort of confounded logic outside of outright stupidity. What else in society would cause a person to think he was covered by what is generally a public service?
    bolded...there's your answer. this guy was a dumbass. he admitted that even though he didn't pay, he thought they would come out anyway.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  10. #100
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    Re: Was the fire department right or wrong?

    I think the fire department was neither right or wrong. They were lawful. They have no legal responsibility to attend to fires outside of the area they are assigned. They also have no legal responsibility to attend to fires to the people in the county who refused to pay the taxation. I own a house outside of Montreal, Canada. The fact that it's about 45 mins to an hour outside of a metropolitan area means that there is a high probability that if our house will catch on fire, the firefighters in the nearest town won't have time to get to it as it's a pretty rural area. It's a chance we took when we bought the house. These people likewise were too cheap to pay what is essentially a $75 tax to have firefighting service. I don't know why. I don't care really. What I do know is that they got exactly as they deserve. As I stated in another thread: If you want the government's help, pay your taxes.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 10-06-10 at 02:05 PM.
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