View Poll Results: Which is a better quality: Forgiveness or Loyalty?

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  • Forgiveness

    7 16.67%
  • Loyalty

    21 50.00%
  • Depends on the situation

    14 33.33%
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Thread: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

  1. #1
    Educator Helvidius's Avatar
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    Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    I was watching Mad Men and this quote came up: "Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?"

    I'm not necessarily looking for answers based on the context of the show. In general what do you think?
    Last edited by Helvidius; 10-01-10 at 05:22 PM.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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    The Mark's Avatar
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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    To me, it obviously "depends on the situation".
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    Educator Helvidius's Avatar
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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    To me, it obviously "depends on the situation".
    Examples? I actually don't think it is that obvious.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    What if your loyalty to someone compels you to forgive them I think both are essential qualities.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    Examples? I actually don't think it is that obvious.
    Hmm...

    It depends greatly on what, precisely, the "loyalty" is to, and what, precisely, the "forgiveness" is for...

    If you had been "loyal" to the ideals of a torturer of the Spanish Inquisition, then "forgiveness" towards those you would normally torture would be a better quality.

    On the other hand, if you were a policeman/detective willing to give up your loyalty to the law and forgive child molesters their crimes...Then the loyalty would be a better quality, IMO

    Thus, "Depends on the situation."

    Edit: Also, this:
    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    What if your loyalty to someone compels you to forgive them I think both are essential qualities.
    In some cases, both (or some combination) would be the best quality.
    Last edited by The Mark; 10-01-10 at 05:35 PM.
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    Educator Helvidius's Avatar
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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    Let us say they are conflicting. To forgive someone would mean breaking your loyalty to something. If someone intentionally murders a family member or friend of yours, but later feels guilty and apologizes to you, do you accept the apology? Would accepting the apology be seen as betraying the friend/family member?
    Last edited by Helvidius; 10-01-10 at 05:54 PM.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    Let us say they are conflicting. To forgive someone would mean breaking your loyalty to something. If someone intentionally murders a family member or friend of yours, but later feels guilty and apologizes to you, do you accept the apology? Would accepting the apology be seen as betraying the friend/family member?
    Depends on the situation.

    If the person who intentionally murdered your family member or friend is in jail, life sentence or death row, and you are convinced they have realized the error of their actions, I don't think so. Depending, of course, on how vindictive the murdered person was, but it's not really up to them, now is it?

    OTOH, if the person who intentionally murdered your family member or friend is now the brutal dictator of the small country you live in, and your murdered family member or friend was the former leader of said country...
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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    I'm pretty sure Jesus put forgiveness at the top of the list, while Don Corleone rewarded loyalty.


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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    I'm pretty sure Jesus put forgiveness at the top of the list, while Don Corleone rewarded loyalty.

    And likely, Jesus would approve if his followers loyally followed his teachings of forgiveness, while Don Corleone would be more likely to forgive those who were loyal to him.
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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    And likely, Jesus would approve if his followers loyally followed his teachings of forgiveness, while Don Corleone would be more likely to forgive those who were loyal to him.
    Please show me where Jesus ever used the word 'loyalty' or any connotation. Faith is different than loyalty.

    My point is that loyalty can be impure, corrupting the soul. People were loyal to Hitler. Forgiveness is something higher, righteous.

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