View Poll Results: Which is a better quality: Forgiveness or Loyalty?

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  • Forgiveness

    7 16.67%
  • Loyalty

    21 50.00%
  • Depends on the situation

    14 33.33%
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Thread: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

  1. #21
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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I thought I did, earlier, with the “Don is more likely to forgive those loyal to him than those not” idea.
    In that example, the entire system is corrupt and impure. The loyalty is based on immorality and skewed values. The 'forget about it' forgiveness, when the henchman loses the drop bag, or get pinched by the cops, is only based on the henchman's continued loyalty to an illegal endeavor and not ratting out the Don.



    In your mind, is forgiveness genuine if someone “forgives” another (as in, perhaps, forgiving someone a debt) with the expectation that they will receive something in return at a future date?
    Forgiving a debt in exchange for something is a negotiation.

    Letting go of a resentment for a perceived offense, nothing is exchanged. It's internal. Forgiving a debt as part of forgiving the offense is an external expression of that.

  2. #22
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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    In that example, the entire system is corrupt and impure. The loyalty is based on immorality and skewed values. The 'forget about it' forgiveness, when the henchman loses the drop bag, or get pinched by the cops, is only based on the henchman's continued loyalty to an illegal endeavor and not ratting out the Don.





    Forgiving a debt in exchange for something is a negotiation.

    Letting go of a resentment for a perceived offense, nothing is exchanged. It's internal. Forgiving a debt as part of forgiving the offense is an external expression of that.
    It appears that our personal dfinitions of "forgiveness" differ.

    Under yours, you would be correct.

    Under mine, I would have had a point.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    Loyalty, hands down. Turning the other cheek just leads to getting slapped again.

  4. #24
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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    I was watching Mad Men and this quote came up: "Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?"

    I'm not necessarily looking for answers based on the context of the show. In general what do you think?
    Foregiveness isn't a quality - it is an action or a thought process. For many it's rooted in morality, ethics, spirituality - etc.
    Loyalty is more related to personality, conviction or belief, psychology, etc.

    Two very different things. Apples and oranges.

    Forgiveness is pointless if the person being forgiven doesn't value it or uphold their end of the deal (depending on what your construct of forgiveness is)
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 10-04-10 at 09:39 AM.
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  5. #25
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    Re: Since when is forgiveness a better quality than loyalty?

    I have always found loyalty to be a lesser trait than forgiveness, but I tend to believe that everyone should be their own person and not the follower of someone else.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 10-04-10 at 01:09 PM.

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