View Poll Results: Worst American President

Voters
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  • Barack Obama

    141 62.11%
  • George W. Bush

    30 13.22%
  • Franklin Pierce

    3 1.32%
  • Herbert Hoover

    6 2.64%
  • Warren G. Harding

    6 2.64%
  • FDR

    8 3.52%
  • James Buchanan

    9 3.96%
  • Ulysses S. Grant

    2 0.88%
  • Other

    22 9.69%
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Thread: Worst American Presidents

  1. #241
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    shall I attempt to prove it as you did with your gaping error on SSI

    why are so many of the uber wealthy like BUffett and Gates and Turner dems?

    taking half of a 4 million estate is far different than taking half of a 100 million dollar estate. the latter will normally regenerate that amount in the normal lifespan of the heir.
    Buffet hasn't always been a Democrat, as a matter of fact, he grew up as a Republican. He's the one that brought attention to the fact that his secretary paid more taxes than he did, and he didn't think that was right, something that Bush probably didn't find fault with, when he decided to give the ultra wealthy the tax cuts.


    Buffett grew up a Republican like his father, Howard, who represented Nebraska's 2nd District in Congress from 1943-49 and 1951-53. The younger Buffett switched parties during the early 1960s, saying his views on civil rights aligned more with Democrats.

    Buffett normally supports democratic candidates and contends that the George W. Bush tax policy unfairly burdens the middle class. However, he is ... a confidante of California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





  2. #242
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    You are arguing about the ends (of which will be disputed for some time to come), whereas I am arguing about what crossed his mind for achieving a desirable end, which was what you initially suggested. The effort was to improve life for the average American. His means for doing so were a mixture of tax breaks for average Americans and the wealthy. The desired end result was an improved life for most Americans. The end result could certainly be different from what was intended, but nevertheless, it was his goal.
    The tax cuts for the middle class were only a means to appease the middle class, so that he would not get any flack for tax cuts for the very wealthy, who didn't really need them at all, and who benefitted far more than the middle class from them.

    President Bush and a Republican-controlled Congress passed a series of massive tax cuts from 2001 to 2006. Their cuts lowered everyone’s taxes, but they were skewed heavily to the wealthy. More than half of the total benefit from the Bush tax cuts this year alone will accrue solely to the richest 5 percent of Americans while the middle 20 percent of Americans will reap only 7 percent of the benefit.

    Three Good Reasons to Let the High-End Bush Tax Cuts Disappear This Year



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





  3. #243
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Buffet hasn't always been a Democrat, as a matter of fact, he grew up as a Republican. He's the one that brought attention to the fact that his secretary paid more taxes than he did, and he didn't think that was right, something that Bush probably didn't find fault with, when he decided to give the ultra wealthy the tax cuts.


    Buffett grew up a Republican like his father, Howard, who represented Nebraska's 2nd District in Congress from 1943-49 and 1951-53. The younger Buffett switched parties during the early 1960s, saying his views on civil rights aligned more with Democrats.

    Buffett normally supports democratic candidates and contends that the George W. Bush tax policy unfairly burdens the middle class. However, he is ... a confidante of California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican.
    I guess you never understood that Buffet structured his compensation to avoid taxes on earned income and instead structured his compensation mainly as unearned income but he paid higher rates on his earned income than she did and he doesn't pay lower rates on any other source of income

    however, since he structured most of his compensation as capital gains or dividend his overall tax rate is lower even though he pays thousands more times in taxes and certainly doesn't get thousands times more government benefits.
    but its dishonest for him to whine about something he created in the first place

    he wants to ingratiate himself to people who FEEL as you do but the fact is, his tax rate is higher on earned income and probably on dividend income so the whole Buffet example is bogus



  4. #244
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    The tax cuts for the middle class were only a means to appease the middle class, so that he would not get any flack for tax cuts for the very wealthy, who didn't really need them at all, and who benefitted far more than the middle class from them.

    President Bush and a Republican-controlled Congress passed a series of massive tax cuts from 2001 to 2006. Their cuts lowered everyone’s taxes, but they were skewed heavily to the wealthy. More than half of the total benefit from the Bush tax cuts this year alone will accrue solely to the richest 5 percent of Americans while the middle 20 percent of Americans will reap only 7 percent of the benefit.

    Three Good Reasons to Let the High-End Bush Tax Cuts Disappear This Year
    the richest 5% pay more than half of the federal income taxes. so its only fair that they receive at least half of the benefits from tax cuts.

    why do people like you spend so much time demanding other people have more stuff taken from them by the government? is it envy or do you actually believe that it helps you when others are looted by the government?



  5. #245
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    he cut taxes for everyone who paid income taxes and many were dropped from the tax rolls. Its actually the dems who help the ultra wealthy.
    How do you figure that. It isn't the Dems that turn down all programs that help the middle class and below. If that was the case, the Dems wouldn't support HCR, Finance Reform, or regulation of corporations.

    Estate and income taxes kill off those who would reach their level. If you think rich dems care for the poor you are sorely mistaken.
    Yeah right, that is why Dems are against Welfare, HCR, Medicare, and Medicaid.

    Rich liberals need lots of poor to vote for them and to justify the socialist nonsense that actually helps the uber wealthy
    They just need lots of "easily led to believe they will benefit from the policies that actually benefit the rich," that's all.

    And, how do socialist nonsense actually help the uber wealthy? That doesn't make any sense at all. Why would the wealthy Dems support welfare, finance reform and other such programs that benefit the regular folks?



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





  6. #246
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    How do you figure that. It isn't the Dems that turn down all programs that help the middle class and below. If that was the case, the Dems wouldn't support HCR, Finance Reform, or regulation of corporations.


    Yeah right, that is why Dems are against Welfare, HCR, Medicare, and Medicaid.


    They just need lots of "easily led to believe they will benefit from the policies that actually benefit the rich," that's all.

    And, how do socialist nonsense actually help the uber wealthy? That doesn't make any sense at all. Why would the wealthy Dems support welfare, finance reform and other such programs that benefit the regular folks?
    stuff that keeps people dependent on the government help those who get their power by being in government. its like pushers selling drugs to addicts.

    why do the ultra wealthy support welfare socialism? didn't you just claim Buffett supports higher taxes on those who already pay most of the taxes? its a rather simple concept.

    your biggest failing is thinking that welfare is designed to actually help the poor. its an opiate of the masses and that helps the entrenched elites.



  7. #247
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    false illusions--that rich dems want the poor to escape poverty
    If that was so they would become Republicans. After all, Republicans are the ones that want to abolish all the programs that help the middle class and below.

    false ilusions-you can tax your way to prosperity
    Allowing the tax cuts to the very wealthy is going to reap $700 billion over the next 10 years. And, he's not really raising taxes, just letting the tax cuts expire. Taxes will just revert to what they were, before Bush tax cuts.

    false illusions-taxing the rich more and more will make the poor more productive and less dependent on the government
    I don't know that anyone is saying that. What it will do is help lower the deficit.

    false illusions-the people who constantly bash the rich are not envious or spiteful, they are merely looking out for the good of the nation.
    You don't make sense. You say the Dems are the wealthy and the ones that don't care about the poor, so why would they want their own tax cuts to expire?



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





  8. #248
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    stuff that keeps people dependent on the government help those who get their power by being in government. its like pushers selling drugs to addicts.
    You are claiming that the wealthy Democrats work for the government? Is that why the Republicans didn't do away with welfare and Medicare, they were getting their power by keeping people dependent on the government?

    why do the ultra wealthy support welfare socialism? didn't you just claim Buffett supports higher taxes on those who already pay most of the taxes? its a rather simple concept.
    Except that Buffet is very wealthy himself. The difference being is that he realizes the unfairness of it, the greed exemplified by Republicans in wanting the rich to get even richer at the expense of the middle class and below.

    your biggest failing is thinking that welfare is designed to actually help the poor. its an opiate of the masses and that helps the entrenched elites.
    Your biggest failing is believing that the wealthy Republicans in power care anything about the middle class and below. That's why Bush was willing to outsource so many jobs and let the corporations go unregulated, because that was somehow helping the poor.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





  9. #249
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    If that was so they would become Republicans. After all, Republicans are the ones that want to abolish all the programs that help the middle class and below.

    Allowing the tax cuts to the very wealthy is going to reap $700 billion over the next 10 years. And, he's not really raising taxes, just letting the tax cuts expire. Taxes will just revert to what they were, before Bush tax cuts.


    I don't know that anyone is saying that. What it will do is help lower the deficit.


    You don't make sense. You say the Dems are the wealthy and the ones that don't care about the poor, so why would they want their own tax cuts to expire?
    again you have been seduced by the socialist side of the force, you have bought into the lie that dem welfare programs were designed to actually help people rather than to empower the politicians who created the programs. Uber rich want the tax cuts to expire in order to gain votes from people who feel as you do because being in office makes more money for them than not being in office or not having their politicians in office

    you ever hear of Carnegie? he allowed the unions into his steel company and with that power unions spread to his competition who could not afford union wages-they went bankrupt, carnegie bought them up and then crushed the unions. simple people playing chess only see one move ahead. simple people though Fisher lost "the game of the century" when he sacrificed his queen. in reality, he sucked Byrne into a trap that the other master could not recover from. There is an old Asian adage of taking one step back to take two steps forward and that is what the uber wealthy dems do by conceding higher tax rates in order to buy the allegiance of people such as you.

    jacking taxes up on the rich allows dems to claim they want to stop the reckless increase in deficits when in reality it allows them to spend more and more and more to buy your votes. the deficit will not decrease becasue the dems have to keep spending in order to maintain power and the rich don't have unlimited funds-and many of them will go into serious tax avoidance ploys or leave the country.



  10. #250
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I guess you never understood that Buffet structured his compensation to avoid taxes on earned income and instead structured his compensation mainly as unearned income but he paid higher rates on his earned income than she did and he doesn't pay lower rates on any other source of income

    however, since he structured most of his compensation as capital gains or dividend his overall tax rate is lower even though he pays thousands more times in taxes and certainly doesn't get thousands times more government benefits.
    but its dishonest for him to whine about something he created in the first place

    he wants to ingratiate himself to people who FEEL as you do but the fact is, his tax rate is higher on earned income and probably on dividend income so the whole Buffet example is bogus
    Most wealthy people don't even "earn" income. They live off their capital gains, so they don't even "work" for their money. And, the rate on capital gains is lower, so most of them don't have "earned" income. The middle class and below pay more and they actually work for it.

    Now we have a Republican in California who is suggesting that capital gains taxes should be done away with - there is no end to their greed.

    But Whitman thinks she and other rich people are so special that she wants to exempt them from taxes on capital gains. That means the rest of us -- the poor fools who actually get up every monring and go to work -- will have to pick up the slack.

    Oh, but won't this "create jobs?" Chris Kelly in Huff Po:

    For example, if a billionaire didn't have to pay taxes, he could hire you to express his dog's anal glands. And you could pay taxes.

    Pardon me for thinking this is about the dumbest tax idea I've heard since Ronald Reagan decided to tax the unemployed.

    Meg wants to stop paying taxes | San Francisco Bay Guardian



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





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