View Poll Results: Worst American President

Voters
227. You may not vote on this poll
  • Barack Obama

    141 62.11%
  • George W. Bush

    30 13.22%
  • Franklin Pierce

    3 1.32%
  • Herbert Hoover

    6 2.64%
  • Warren G. Harding

    6 2.64%
  • FDR

    8 3.52%
  • James Buchanan

    9 3.96%
  • Ulysses S. Grant

    2 0.88%
  • Other

    22 9.69%
Page 17 of 31 FirstFirst ... 7151617181927 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 170 of 305

Thread: Worst American Presidents

  1. #161
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Soviet Technate
    Last Seen
    10-25-10 @ 06:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    359

    Re: Worst American Presidents

    We'd still have a massive debt and bureaucracy, because Republicans encourage that, too, including Saint Ronald McReagan.

    FDR was one of the better presidents. Flawed, indecisive, yes. Evil? No. A lot of good came out of the New Deal, and it's been the agenda of the Extreme Right to destroy all progress and regress the United States to the free for all of the 19th centuy. If anything, FDR was too conservative in some ways.
    Last edited by Technocratic; 10-03-10 at 11:06 PM.

  2. #162
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:23 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,658

    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Technocratic View Post
    We'd still have a massive debt and bureaucracy, because Republicans encourage that, too, including Saint Ronald McReagan.

    FDR was one of the better presidents. Flawed, indecisive, yes. Evil? No. A lot of good came out of the New Deal, and it's been the agenda of the Extreme Right to destroy all progress and regress the United States to the free for all of the 19th centuy. If anything, FDR was too conservative in some ways.
    what good?
    destruction of the tenth amendment

    milions of entitlement addicts who have become a self generating and expanding cost

    prolonged the depression

    ignored warnings about an imminent Japanese attack



  3. #163
    Educator Helvidius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Good ol' US of A
    Last Seen
    02-01-17 @ 12:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    735

    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what good?
    destruction of the tenth amendment

    milions of entitlement addicts who have become a self generating and expanding cost

    prolonged the depression

    ignored warnings about an imminent Japanese attack
    Don't forget confiscation of gold with a penalty of up to 10 years in prison for those who did not obey, attempting to stack the Supreme Court, burning of agriculture/farm animals, Japanese internment camps, and falling in love with Stalin. What a guy...
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  4. #164
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Soviet Technate
    Last Seen
    10-25-10 @ 06:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    359

    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what good?
    destruction of the tenth amendment

    milions of entitlement addicts who have become a self generating and expanding cost

    prolonged the depression

    ignored warnings about an imminent Japanese attack
    Many of the New Deal programmes alleviated significant suffering that would have existed had the progarmmes not existed. This is worth it, even if one believes in an extension of the Depression by several years, which is still hotly debaetd in academic history (both why and if)

    Moreover, the New Deal provided for social stability when there were far more radical programmes gaining significant ground, which the New Deal plowed under, and thus saved the United States from. You should thank FDR. He saved American capitalism, ultimately, and provided considerable hope and unity for many Americans who otherwise would have turned against the "values" of the nation out of desperation.

    Then we still benefit from the legacy of the New Deal. Social Security is a fantasic success, and can still be maintained, despite the Doomsayers of the Far Right. Without it, there would be far more poverty among the elderly. The SEC was also a valuable regulatory tool, untill the era of deregulation gutted it. Glas-Steagal was good, again until it was destroyed.

    Another benefit is the culture of social safety nets born of the New Deal. No civilized nation ought to be without a robust social safety net.

    The charge of "he promoted Socialism" is of dubious legitimacy, given the concept assumes your ideological view in the assessment of whether he was evil and whether the New Deal was bad. That charge only has value to members of your particular faith. The fact that something is Socialism, or borrows elements of Socialism, does not make it bad. It only is bad...to you.
    Last edited by Technocratic; 10-04-10 at 02:03 AM.

  5. #165
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Soviet Technate
    Last Seen
    10-25-10 @ 06:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    359

    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    Don't forget confiscation of gold with a penalty of up to 10 years in prison for those who did not obey, attempting to stack the Supreme Court, burning of agriculture/farm animals, Japanese internment camps, and falling in love with Stalin. What a guy...
    True, he did some bad things, and no one's disagreeing with what you specifically said (mostly). Then again, so much is true also of the American Right's darlings, such as Saint Ronald von Reagan: a massive chickenhawk, deficit spender, friend of friendly dictators, and terrorist financier. Yet, for some bizarre reason, none on the Right ever condemn Reagan, nor do they use his bad points to ignore any of the supposedly good things they believe he did. He's seen as a Saint in the Right's political religion.
    Last edited by Technocratic; 10-04-10 at 02:06 AM.

  6. #166
    Educator Helvidius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Good ol' US of A
    Last Seen
    02-01-17 @ 12:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    735

    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Technocratic View Post
    True, he did some bad things, and no one's disagreeing with what you specifically said (mostly). Then again, so much is true also of the American Right's darlings, such as Saint Ronald von Reagan: a massive chickenhawk, deficit spender, friend of friendly dictators, and terrorist financier. Yet, for some bizarre reason, none on the Right ever condemn Reagan, nor do they use his bad points to ignore any of the supposedly good things they believe he did. He's seen as a Saint in the Right's political religion.
    Reagan certainly had his flaws, but I do not consider him to be nearly as bad as FDR (though I still thought Reagan was bad). Also, terrorist financer is a bit misleading since we gave organizations weapons to fight the USSR. Just happened to have significant blowback for the United States which our foreign policy often does.

    FDR did not save capitalism in America. Capitalism had been dead long before FDR became President.

    Is Social Security a success? I think that can be debated. And I don't think the New Deal was a success at all. It did nothing to help the economy. But don't take my word for it, listen to Henry Morganthau...

    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong ... somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises ... I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... And an enormous debt to boot!"
    -Henry Morganthau, May 1939
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  7. #167
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Goldsboro,PA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,595
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Worst American Presidents

    The only ,IMO, "intelligent" votes are the 15 for "other".
    Obviously, this poll has been polluted by tea-bagging conservatives, so it is worthless.
    But, the liberals do not have an equivalent.
    Why?

  8. #168
    User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Last Seen
    06-09-12 @ 12:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    90

    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I guess I'm naive, since I believe Obama is a piece of **** and probably got all those votes.
    You might take an historical look at some of our past presidents before making such a blanket comment.

  9. #169
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Soviet Technate
    Last Seen
    10-25-10 @ 06:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    359

    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Also, terrorist financer is a bit misleading since we gave organizations weapons to fight the USSR.
    We helped fund and supply the same people who later attacked us. Reagan did that. You see, Americans had no problem funding terrorists, so long as the terrorists were attacking someone else far, far away.

    But I am not talking about the Soviet thing anyway. Reagan sold weapons to terrorists, so he could clandestinely fund terrorists in S. America to overthrow governments.

    FDR did not save capitalism in America. Capitalism had been dead long before FDR became President.
    That's a huge exaggeration. We still are largely capitalist today according to any credible economic organization. We have a mixed economy. We never had a 'pure' system. Our system is one of, but not the most, "capitalitst" in the world.

    FDR was important because the New Deal prevented something much, much worse and radical from taking over.

    Is Social Security a success? I think that can be debated. And I don't think the New Deal was a success at all. It did nothing to help the economy. But don't take my word for it, listen to Henry Morganthau...
    SS was definitly a huge success. One of the most successful anti poverty mechanisms in American History, and its function can be saved with intelligent resource use, redirection, plannng, etc.

    The New Deal actually was improving the economy, so it's incorrect to say it did nothing. It was just doing it slowly. What actually set back the New Deal was FDR's reluctance to carry things through to the extent that they needed to, hence the slow progress an te 1937 setback. Conservatives actually convinced him to abandon projects early and then try to balance the budget, which cauesd the Depression's 37 recession. You can thank the Republicans for making things worse again. FDR did not spend enough, long enough. A legit criticism is that too much was going on, and FDR didn't actually trust any of it, so right when progress was made, a programme was cut, declared unconstitutional, or funding was cut (already when it wasn't nearly enough).

    The New Deal had a tremendous success, despite not ending the Depression. In its historical form, it failed to do that, partly because of obstructionists and FDR's conservative feelings about applying Kenysianism, but it did plenty else.

    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong ... somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises ... I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... And an enormous debt to boot!"
    -Henry Morganthau, May 1939

    That is deceptive for many reasons. One problem with the New Deal is that progress was slow an hampered by FDR's, and his oppositions, behaviour. There was an improvement from beginninig until 1937, when opposition became almost impossible to overcome, leading to a cut in efforts, funding, and a balancing of the budget too early, which undid a lot of progress.

    The New Deal also did not spend enough, fast enough. FDR had a big problem: hew as inherently conservative and did not try things long enough. That was a legitimate problem of the New Deal. It was often too little, not long enough.

    We can see what happened in WW2. The spending dwarfed the New Deal, then America got a competition free market after spending primed the pump, solving the problem.


    But the best legacy of the New Deal is the prevention of more radical systems from taking over as well as regulatory mechanisms and the social safety net. I really couldn't care less if it "solved" the Depression. The amount of suffering it alleviated and the institutions it put into place are worth it.
    Last edited by Technocratic; 10-04-10 at 01:27 PM.

  10. #170
    Educator Helvidius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Good ol' US of A
    Last Seen
    02-01-17 @ 12:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    735

    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Technocratic View Post
    We helped fund and supply the same people who later attacked us. Reagan did that. You see, Americans had no problem funding terrorists, so long as the terrorists were attacking someone else far, far away.

    But I am not talking about the Soviet thing anyway. Reagan sold weapons to terrorists, so he could clandestinely fund terrorists in S. America to overthrow governments.



    That's a huge exaggeration. We still are largely capitalist today according to any credible economic organization. We have a mixed economy. We never had a 'pure' system. Our system is one of, but not the most, "capitalitst" in the world.

    FDR was important because the New Deal prevented something much, much worse and radical from taking over.



    SS was definitly a huge success. One of the most successful anti poverty mechanisms in American History, and its function can be saved with intelligent resource use, redirection, plannng, etc.

    The New Deal actually was improving the economy, so it's incorrect to say it did nothing. It was just doing it slowly. What actually set back the New Deal was FDR's reluctance to carry things through to the extent that they needed to, hence the slow progress an te 1937 setback. Conservatives actually convinced him to abandon projects early and then try to balance the budget, which cauesd the Depression's 37 recession. You can thank the Republicans for making things worse again. FDR did not spend enough, long enough. A legit criticism is that too much was going on, and FDR didn't actually trust any of it, so right when progress was made, a programme was cut, declared unconstitutional, or funding was cut (already when it wasn't nearly enough).

    The New Deal had a tremendous success, despite not ending the Depression. In its historical form, it failed to do that, partly because of obstructionists and FDR's conservative feelings about applying Kenysianism, but it did plenty else.




    That is deceptive for many reasons. One problem with the New Deal is that progress was slow an hampered by FDR's, and his oppositions, behaviour. There was an improvement from beginninig until 1937, when opposition became almost impossible to overcome, leading to a cut in efforts, funding, and a balancing of the budget too early, which undid a lot of progress.

    The New Deal also did not spend enough, fast enough. FDR had a big problem: hew as inherently conservative and did not try things long enough. That was a legitimate problem of the New Deal. It was often too little, not long enough.

    We can see what happened in WW2. The spending dwarfed the New Deal, then America got a competition free market after spending primed the pump, solving the problem.


    But the best legacy of the New Deal is the prevention of more radical systems from taking over as well as regulatory mechanisms and the social safety net. I really couldn't care less if it "solved" the Depression. The amount of suffering it alleviated and the institutions it put into place are worth it.
    Ah, I thought you meant the Middle East, but fair enough. You hit the nail on the head. We have a mixed economy. To suggest it is capitalism because it contains capitalist elements is misleading.

    I'm going to trust FDR's Secretary of the Treasury when he says they have spent too much and it hasn't done anything to help the economy. FDR's policies did not help people. In fact, the New Deal hurt the poor and middle classes the most.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Page 17 of 31 FirstFirst ... 7151617181927 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •