View Poll Results: Worst American President

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  • Barack Obama

    141 62.11%
  • George W. Bush

    30 13.22%
  • Franklin Pierce

    3 1.32%
  • Herbert Hoover

    6 2.64%
  • Warren G. Harding

    6 2.64%
  • FDR

    8 3.52%
  • James Buchanan

    9 3.96%
  • Ulysses S. Grant

    2 0.88%
  • Other

    22 9.69%
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Thread: Worst American Presidents

  1. #111
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    Why would you not take that seriously? I listed well respected economists to backup my assertion. You said economists to back up your claim. And my argument was simply that the Federal Reserve caused a depression. I said nothing about who got us out of it so I'm not sure why that would be relevant.
    Perhaps Federal Reserve policy influenced the depression, but it is excessively simplistic to treat it as a one-variable causality. No serious economic historian does that. When people outside the field make these simplistic models, they're often wrong. Many factors caused the Depression, including things that happened well-before 1929. Some factors were private, some were caused by government. The theory that the government was the sole problem that caused the depression is a Friedmanite dogma.
    Last edited by Technocratic; 10-02-10 at 06:33 PM.

  2. #112
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    With so much to choose from, its hard to pick a spot.
    Aside from that -- still waiting for you to provide some substance.

  3. #113
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Technocratic View Post
    Perhaps Federal Reserve policy influenced the depression, but it is excessively simplistic to treat it as a one-variable causality. No serious economic historian does that. When people outside the field make these simplistic models, they're often wrong. Many factors caused the Depression, including things that happened well-before 1929. Some factors were private, some were caused by government. The theory that the government was the sole problem that caused the depression is a Friedmanite dogma.
    Who in your eyes is an economic historian? I would like examples since my link contained three well respected economists who backed up my argument. Obviously there were other factors that hurt the economy, but what turned a recession into a depression was Federal Reserve policy. Your post is entirely your own opinion and a feeble attempt to discredit mine. Also, I did not say it was government policy that caused the Great Depression. All I said was the Federal Reserve turned a recession into a depression. In fact, I was defending the government. The Federal Reserve is privately owned, not a part of the government.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  4. #114
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    Who in your eyes is an economic historian? I would like examples since my link contained three well respected economists who backed up my argument. Obviously there were other factors that hurt the economy, but what turned a recession into a depression was Federal Reserve policy. Your post is entirely your own opinion and a feeble attempt to discredit mine. Also, I did not say it was government policy that caused the Great Depression. All I said was the Federal Reserve turned a recession into a depression. In fact, I was defending the government. The Federal Reserve is privately owned, not a part of the government.
    David M. Kennedy is an example, as well as James T. Patterson. Both are great historians whose work covers extensively American economic conditions relevent to the period. I am sure some economists would certainly blame the government or the Federal Reserve--I know of many who do. They have single variable equations and leave it a that. This isn't knock against you or your argument's credibiliy. I actually said I agree that reserve policy probably contributed.

    Economist are not historians, and really, I see no reason to take what economists say too seriously anyway due to the political bias and poor methodology of economics, anyway, They are often wrong badly, and most of the world's "top economists" couldn't even see the recent recession coming or hitting them in the face. A lot of Friedmanite economists fancy themselves economc historians and try to paint it as "the government's fault" by saying the "Fed caused it." Milton Friedman actually directly stated that, which was later parroted by Greenspan. It was then published a paper saying "Government admits it caused Great Depression.

    We now see this canard in historical revisionism in books like "A Patriot's Guide to American History." It's a rather sad assault on serious academic history.
    Last edited by Technocratic; 10-02-10 at 09:43 PM.

  5. #115
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Bin Laden determined to strike in US. — title of presidential daily briefing on August 6, 2001

    Bush was on vacation and took no action; just over thirty days later thousands of Americans died in New York City and the Pentagon.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  6. #116
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Bin Laden determined to strike in US. — title of presidential daily briefing on August 6, 2001

    Bush was on vacation and took no action; just over thirty days later thousands of Americans died in New York City and the Pentagon.
    Does anyone else agree that "Determined to strike" =/= "Will strike"?

    /facepalm

    Not to mention, I seriously doubt he "took no action" whatsoever for 30 days.
    Last edited by The Mark; 10-02-10 at 10:18 PM.
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  7. #117
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  8. #118
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Does anyone else agree that "Determined to strike" =/= "Will strike"?

    /facepalm

    Not to mention, I seriously doubt he "took no action" whatsoever for 30 days.
    Bush and his team got thousands of warnings in the 6 weeks before the 9-11 strike

    its like the FBI getting a tip that somewhere some place a bank will be robbed by someone.

    even that commission full of hacks like Jaime Gorelick (who imposed the wall of silence between the various agencies) couldn't blame Bush

    so the BDS victims continue to blame Bush when in reality clinton's weak response to WTC I was what emboldened Bin Laden to hatch this scheme of mass destruction.



  9. #119
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    How many presidents started wars they didn't finish? …




    Bush started two.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  10. #120
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    Re: Worst American Presidents

    George W. Bush was the worst president in American history and the conservatives in this country are to blame.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

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