View Poll Results: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

Voters
48. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, they should be paid more each year they teach.

    4 8.33%
  • No (please explain how you think they should be paid)

    44 91.67%
Page 7 of 31 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 304

Thread: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

  1. #61
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,635

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    All to support teachers scared ****less of losing their job because they know they don't have the passion to put in the dedication the children deserve.
    I would consider that an unfair statement. Mostly because if there is anything I have learned being stuck in a college of education or being surrounded with educators or substitute teachers, is that they have a disproportionate amount of dedication towards students-or at least, in the way that they feel is dedication towards students. That isn't really the issue. It's more that there is a complicated series of social and policy discussions with how we can overall improve the education system, and dealing with the various interest groups at hand (educators, administrators, parents, students, service providers, politicians, business leaders, and so forth).
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  2. #62
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    this has not worked locally. good teachers in affluent schools have been offered up to $15,000 annually as a supplement to their salaries to move to horrendous schools
    That is not the same as rewarding teachers for exceeding expectations, which would be lower in failing schools. You can reward them for their students' performance whether they are in the middle of a ghetto or in a pristine suburb. The actual expectations might be different, but the same concept would apply.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba
    good teachers like to teach. little teaching can be accomplished in some awful schools where the students - to large degree - are not there to get an education
    in my kids' former HS, there were 56 students attending, ages 19, 20 and 21, who had fewer than 10 credits. most of them had no statistical chance to earn the credits needed to receive a diploma. and this is at a nationally ranked, top ten HS. for many, school is a social activity, free breakfast and lunch, a place to market their illicit wares, and for their parents, the basis to collect a larger monthly check
    Geoffrey Canada established a group of charter schools in the heart of Harlem: New York's worst-performing school district. Not only does it get far better results than the surrounding Harlem public schools (over 90% of his students go to college), but it's among the best-performing schools in all of New York City. It's simply not true that poor students from rough neighborhoods are incapable or unwilling to learn.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-03-10 at 04:49 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  3. #63
    Sage
    UtahBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,687

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    I read something the other day about motivation. It was tested on engineer types so it may not be directly applicable to teachers. Basically, it said more money, beyond a certain point, does not motivate as much as expected. It was more autonomy and satisfaction of accomplishment than money. I will try to find that and post a link.
    It might have been on TED.com
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  4. #64
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,635

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    I was getting my information from a few general studies on bureaucracy over the decades and including this.
    Edit: But thank you for bringing that to my attention. The scholars at AEI are disputing the commonly accepted statistics that government workers of local, state, and federal positions are receiving a significantly lower wage than private sector counterparts. Though, from a quick scan of an AEI scholar's commentary rebuttal (which referenced the USA Today Findings) it looks as though it may be limited in scope in commentary about recession years. I could be scanning that wrong, which is entirely possible...as I am supposed to be doing something productive at the moment...but am not.

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- State and local workers earn less than their private sector counterparts and the pay gap is widening, according to a report released Wednesday.

    Public workers earn 11% to 12% less than workers in private companies, according to a joint study from the Center for State and Local Government Excellence and National Institute on Retirement Security.

    The report, which analyzed 20 years of data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, also found that the pay gap has generally widened over the last two decades, as private compensation moved higher while earnings for state and local workers fell.
    Public workers receive less pay, gap widens - Apr. 28, 2010
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 10-03-10 at 05:19 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  5. #65
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,635

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That is not the same as rewarding teachers for exceeding expectations, which would be lower in failing schools. You can reward them for their students' performance whether they are in the middle of a ghetto or in a pristine suburb. The actual expectations might be different, but the same concept would apply.



    Geoffrey Canada established a group of charter schools in the heart of Harlem: New York's worst-performing school district. Not only does it get far better results than the surrounding Harlem public schools (over 90% of his students go to college), but it's among the best-performing schools in all of New York City. It's simply not true that poor students from rough neighborhoods are incapable or unwilling to learn.
    What is more interesting is the fact that they are trying to study what was it that worked for Canada and how to best duplicate the results. My best guess is that you can perhaps attain similar results, but I am less confident in them nailing it to a science.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  6. #66
    Angry Former GOP Voter
    Fiddytree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    25,635

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I read something the other day about motivation. It was tested on engineer types so it may not be directly applicable to teachers. Basically, it said more money, beyond a certain point, does not motivate as much as expected. It was more autonomy and satisfaction of accomplishment than money. I will try to find that and post a link.
    It might have been on TED.com
    In fact, the way I read it, I believe it was engineers who were among the first, or perhaps the first to be tested with various forms of merit pay. Something like two forms were tried. One did not work so well, another model worked far better. Then, the application of those studies into the field of education was less than successful, perhaps arguably, because of the amount of resistance it experienced.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  7. #67
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,127

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That is not the same as rewarding teachers for exceeding expectations, which would be lower in failing schools. You can reward them for their students' performance whether they are in the middle of a ghetto or in a pristine suburb. The actual expectations might be different, but the same concept would apply.
    you misunderstood my point .... or more likely, i did not make it very clear
    the teachers in the more affluent schools in this community's public school system who were already recognized to be exceptional teachers were being offered the premium pay to leave their present school assignments to take teaching positions in the more challenging schools - those with inferior performance records
    those high performing teachers did not want to make the move. despite the rich premium offered. being able to teach, instead of babysit was the determinative factor
    Geoffrey Canada established a group of charter schools in the heart of Harlem: New York's worst-performing school district. Not only does it get far better results than the surrounding Harlem public schools (over 90% of his students go to college), but it's among the best-performing schools in all of New York City. It's simply not true that poor students from rough neighborhoods are incapable or unwilling to learn.
    you make a statement as if to insinuate that i established that students from rough neighborhoods are incapable or unwilling to learn. that is not a valid position
    however, with few exceptions, the performance data from public schools located in rough neighborhoods will indicate they perform at lesser levels than their more affluent counterparts

    now tell us, other than better performance outcomes, what about the canada charter schools is different from the way the public schools in its community operates. that might be telling
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  8. #68
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Part of the issue, at least in my state (PA), is that schools are paid for mostly by means of property taxes.

    Thus, if you have a prosperous area, the schools have more money.

    And vice versa.

    This, IMO, is a very bad system, as it prevents or limits (I think there are some grants and whatnot that someone thought might help this) monetary-based improvements in poor areas.

    I would far rather that if you have public schools, school funding, at least, would follow a more socialistic theme, (the horror!) wherein all funds for public schools in an area (perhaps even state?) would be evenly divided amongst the various schools in said area.

    But I’ve only halfway thought this through, so perhaps this is a bad idea.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  9. #69
    Sage
    UtahBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,687

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Part of the issue, at least in my state (PA), is that schools are paid for mostly by means of property taxes.

    Thus, if you have a prosperous area, the schools have more money.

    And vice versa.

    This, IMO, is a very bad system, as it prevents or limits (I think there are some grants and whatnot that someone thought might help this) monetary-based improvements in poor areas.

    I would far rather that if you have public schools, school funding, at least, would follow a more socialistic theme, (the horror!) wherein all funds for public schools in an area (perhaps even state?) would be evenly divided amongst the various schools in said area.

    But I’ve only halfway thought this through, so perhaps this is a bad idea.
    There is a certain amount of equalization in some states. I am all for it. The state should collect all school related property taxes and then dole the funds back out based on actual student numbers. We can't blame the kids for their parents being poor...
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  10. #70
    Sage
    samsmart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,316
    Blog Entries
    37

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I think this is exactly the wrong mindset, if I understood you correctly. It's still teacher-focused rather than student-focused: A teacher should get tenure simply because they have to "put up with crap," rather than because it will actually help the students. I think we need to stamp out that mindset entirely in our education system. It exists to educate students, not to provide teachers with jobs.
    Well, another reason why I'm against basing teacher salaries on student performance is because it's so difficult to measure. I mean how do we know that the reason why students aren't learning is because of the teachers and not because of problems at home? After all, right now a lot of children are under stress because their parents are out of work which is making them stressed. So because those children are worried about mommy and daddy are fighting all the time instead of the multiplication tables, those teachers are going to have their pay suffer for it.

    Obviously, I'm not against the firing of bad teachers. I just don't think salaries should be determined by student performance.

Page 7 of 31 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •