View Poll Results: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

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  • Yes, they should be paid more each year they teach.

    4 8.33%
  • No (please explain how you think they should be paid)

    44 91.67%
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Thread: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    And then there's me who can't quite decide what model is best....
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?


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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I see a few problems with drawing that conclusion from a single, narrow study:

    1. It was too small in scope. 296 teachers in Nashville are simply not enough data to draw such a sweeping conclusion, as the study's authors themselves acknowledged.
    2. It was not drastic enough. Offering bonuses of $5K, $10K, or $15K - compared to the teacher's base salary which is probably at least $40K on average - isn't enough.
    3. The study misses (what I consider to be) the point of merit pay: To encourage more talented people to enter the profession in the first place as opposed to more lucrative fields...not to wave cash at teachers to get them to work harder. A temporary study lasting a few years will obviously have no impact on this, since a new teacher can't just choose to join in the middle of this study (I assume).
    4. The study measures only half of the consequences of merit pay. Good teachers will get bonuses, but just as importantly, bad teachers will get the axe or at least be harmed financially.
    5. The article isn't clear how improvement was calculated. If it was based simply on year-over-year test scores, that may not be a sufficient discriminator. Analytic software can and should account for inherent differences among the teachers' classes.


    In my view, the potential for some small cash bonuses to existing teachers will not necessarily improve test scores, because they may simply not know how. Presumably (and maybe I'm being too generous here) most teachers WANT their students to do well...even the bad teachers. If they think that their methods are the best, a cash incentive won't necessarily change their opinion. They may simply not recognize that what they are doing does not help the students.

    What merit pay does is allow an evolutionary mechanism to work its magic on our school systems over time. The best teachers will earn a lot of money, other teachers will try to emulate them, and talented people will enter the profession knowing that they can earn large salaries. The worst teachers will be fired, or will earn very little money and leave via attrition. Over time, the talent pool will improve.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-02-10 at 11:09 PM.
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    In my view, the potential for some small cash bonuses to existing teachers will not necessarily improve test scores, because they may simply not know how. Presumably (and maybe I'm being too generous here) most teachers WANT their students to do well...even the bad teachers. If they think that their methods are the best, a cash incentive won't necessarily change their opinion. They may simply not recognize that what they are doing does not help the students.
    I think this statement is one of the major keys to the problem. Right now the education field has experts come in and tell teachers how to teach when each school should system should pay their best teachers extra to do that job.

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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Figuring out the exact standard is more complicated than it would appear. I believe that some form of merit should be involved. However, many of our young people who go directly into teaching require time to develop their creativity, technique, and experience. By the same token, their are teachers who have been teaching for many years who may be of more help providing mentoring than in the classroom itself. We are in a time when people want to make decisions based on one definitive standard. We need to use our brains to figure out creative ways to get the best use out of those individuals who have chosen this field. And yes, that means that some should be removed from the classroom. We are often slow in implementing those steps that are best for our children. Simple seniority is not the answer.

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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    If one thinks about it, the problem starts with "How do we teach our teachers to teach?" And the solution starts right there.

    Learning should be challenging and FUN!!! One only has to look at how kids master video games. And absolutely love the process by which they learn. They dive in and swim. "Open this book. Read these chapters. Take this test." There's GOT to be a better way!

    I honestly think we have to look at our whole core curriculum. What's necessary? What's not? What subjects taught will graduate a child from high school and have them ready to live their lives? To make decisions on whether or not higher education is for them; or if it's trade school; or something else.

    One thing that Kandahar said that resonated with me BIG time was that you can't just pay teachers more to make them better teachers. In fact, THAT way is 100% wrong. The whole idea is to attract creative dedicated people TO the profession. And, just as important, give them the tools to MOTIVATE students and make learning fun. BECAUSE IT IS!!
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    If one thinks about it, the problem starts with "How do we teach our teachers to teach?" And the solution starts right there.

    Learning should be challenging and FUN!!! One only has to look at how kids master video games. And absolutely love the process by which they learn. They dive in and swim. "Open this book. Read these chapters. Take this test." There's GOT to be a better way!

    I honestly think we have to look at our whole core curriculum. What's necessary? What's not? What subjects taught will graduate a child from high school and have them ready to live their lives? To make decisions on whether or not higher education is for them; or if it's trade school; or something else.

    One thing that Kandahar said that resonated with me BIG time was that you can't just pay teachers more to make them better teachers. In fact, THAT way is 100% wrong. The whole idea is to attract creative dedicated people TO the profession. And, just as important, give them the tools to MOTIVATE students and make learning fun. BECAUSE IT IS!!
    I totally agree. Great post. Throughout the years, most people I know got into their profession because a teacher was able to inspire them and make the subject come alive. I believe in experiential learning and before a person can learn you have to envolve them in the subject. Again, great job.

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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Simple question. Maybe a simple answer.

    Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    If so, why?
    If not, how would you revamp the salary schedules if you were in charge?
    I pick "Other."

    I don't mind teachers being paid on the years they've worked for the school system. After all, there's so many factors regarding education that it shouldn't be put all on the teachers. And considering the amount of crap they have to put up with, I don't mind it if they earn tenure.

    On the other hand, I think we should have some reforms with regards to the public education system. These are:

    1) Have school boards comprised of an equal number of teachers, administrators, children, and the parents of children. After all, I don't see why some politician who doesn't have a stake in the public education system should be allowed to be a representative on it and make policy for it.

    2) Pay students to learn. We've poured so much money into computers and teacher salaries and programs and equipment that we have forgotten who we're doing this for: the children. So start pouring money into the children directly. Give them a reason to apply themselves. I would do a 10% cut of all public education programs and salaries to administrators and use that money to set up a fund to pay students for their performance. This way, students will apply themselves more and they can earn money themselves for things instead of having it given to them by the school. After all, the students won't care how much money the teachers get, so targeting teacher salaries is ignorant and stupid. Rather, target student salaries by creating them.

    3) Create year-round school programs. Allow parents to opt their students in for summer school in order to review what they went through the year before and to help prepare them for what they'll learn in the next year. Students forget a lot of schooling during the summer months. Allow students the opportunity to go year round if their parents choose to in order to better their education.

    4) Teach to the talents of the children. I keep hearing how children in the U.S. school system are below average in science and math when it comes to children in other school systems. Yeah, well, the thing is not every child is going to be good in all subjects. Some children just don't get math. It can take a while to understand things mathematically. As for science, kids will start taking more of an interest in science when we let them experiment on their own. Let kids do chemical reactions. Let kids cut animals up. Let kids make household explosives. That'll get them to understand practical applications of science. Until then, STFU about it and teach them the stuff they do get, like literature, music, and art.

    5) After school internships. Place high schoolers in internships for their chosen career path. Help young writers get positions in the news media or with a publishing company. Help young lawyers do work for established attorneys. Show young law enforcement officers how police procedures and forensics work. There's only so much of sitting in a desk and listening to a guy drone on that a child can learn from until they have to actually go out into the world and get some practical experience. Let them get a taste of the real world before we throw them out into it. Street smarts is just as important as book smarts.

  9. #39
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    I pick "Other."

    I don't mind teachers being paid on the years they've worked for the school system. After all, there's so many factors regarding education that it shouldn't be put all on the teachers. And considering the amount of crap they have to put up with, I don't mind it if they earn tenure.

    On the other hand, I think we should have some reforms with regards to the public education system. These are:

    1) Have school boards comprised of an equal number of teachers, administrators, children, and the parents of children. After all, I don't see why some politician who doesn't have a stake in the public education system should be allowed to be a representative on it and make policy for it.

    2) Pay students to learn. We've poured so much money into computers and teacher salaries and programs and equipment that we have forgotten who we're doing this for: the children. So start pouring money into the children directly. Give them a reason to apply themselves. I would do a 10% cut of all public education programs and salaries to administrators and use that money to set up a fund to pay students for their performance. This way, students will apply themselves more and they can earn money themselves for things instead of having it given to them by the school. After all, the students won't care how much money the teachers get, so targeting teacher salaries is ignorant and stupid. Rather, target student salaries by creating them.

    3) Create year-round school programs. Allow parents to opt their students in for summer school in order to review what they went through the year before and to help prepare them for what they'll learn in the next year. Students forget a lot of schooling during the summer months. Allow students the opportunity to go year round if their parents choose to in order to better their education.

    4) Teach to the talents of the children. I keep hearing how children in the U.S. school system are below average in science and math when it comes to children in other school systems. Yeah, well, the thing is not every child is going to be good in all subjects. Some children just don't get math. It can take a while to understand things mathematically. As for science, kids will start taking more of an interest in science when we let them experiment on their own. Let kids do chemical reactions. Let kids cut animals up. Let kids make household explosives. That'll get them to understand practical applications of science. Until then, STFU about it and teach them the stuff they do get, like literature, music, and art.

    5) After school internships. Place high schoolers in internships for their chosen career path. Help young writers get positions in the news media or with a publishing company. Help young lawyers do work for established attorneys. Show young law enforcement officers how police procedures and forensics work. There's only so much of sitting in a desk and listening to a guy drone on that a child can learn from until they have to actually go out into the world and get some practical experience. Let them get a taste of the real world before we throw them out into it. Street smarts is just as important as book smarts.
    kudos for that post
    we are operating our education system as we did in the late 1800's when our nation was an agrarian society, needing hands in the field during the summer
    our kids need to be learning in the summer. we already have the facilities, we pay the teachers by year, so the additional cost to expand the students' learning year would be nominal
    how does one evaulate a teacher of an affluent student body with lots of support in the homes to the teacher who is charged with teaching kids from the project, with often unsupportive, uneducated, single parents with meager incomes. in this age of the internet, why would anyone not expect the kid who can google references to fulfill homework assignments to outperfrom the kid without access to a computer or the web where they live
    a couple of bogus points have been argued. one, that out teachers are paid too much. until the great recession, our schools were begging for teachers. when the economy recovers, it will again. rarely can you attract talent by poorly compensating it. being acquainted with a number of teach for America teachers, they find that the weak administration is as demotivating as the inferior pay
    another bogus position being argued is that teachers cannot be fired. bull****. the weak teachers who are not fired are allowed to remain in the classrooms, wasting our childrens' time - because the administration is too incompetent to do what is needed to document and terminate those ineffective teachers
    if one looks at the compensation of teachers by state and then looks at the student performance data, the states paying the higher teacher salaries tend to also have the most successful students. those states with weak performing students are also those which tend to compensate their teachers the least
    that data also holds true internationally. you get what you pay for. notice the following graphs showing that American teachers teach the most hours internationally, but are certainly not the best compensated, either in raw wage or when compared to GDP per capita


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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    I was planning on going to graduate school during the summers. Jerks
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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