View Poll Results: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

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  • Yes, they should be paid more each year they teach.

    4 8.33%
  • No (please explain how you think they should be paid)

    44 91.67%
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Thread: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

  1. #221
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Sorry, I had posted the link earlier with my literacy link. Here's the link. I'm glad that you had a positive experience with the government mill. Education has been on a steady decline due to the government. Everything the government touches turns to crap, which is a fact of life.
    I'll assume then that you'll never draw medicare, enjoy the protection of the military, drive on interstate highways, or engage in anything else related to the government. Maybe you should move to a different country if this one is so terrible.
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  2. #222
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    You missed the qualifier for gun which was toy. A toy gun, especially ones made for action figures, isn't a threat to anyone, but this eight year old is paying for zero common sense by the school. I went to a rural Iowa school, so we were allowed to bring in shotguns for PE's skeet shooting. The PE class also taught gun safety.
    I've heard of cases like this and it is crazy but this is not the whole system. It is one school that has gone too far.
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  3. #223
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    I'll assume then that you'll never draw medicare, enjoy the protection of the military, drive on interstate highways, or engage in anything else related to the government. Maybe you should move to a different country if this one is so terrible.
    Why should I move from my country when I'm quite happy with the people? The government is not the country, but the people are. My dad taught me the best bit of advice, which is I love my country, but I hate my government. This is coming from a Vietnam vet that lost 62 of his best friends in the Mekong Delta. Besides there is such a thing as freedom of thought and expression. Are you saying that I'm not allowed to enjoy my freedoms just because you disagree with me?

  4. #224
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    I've heard of cases like this and it is crazy but this is not the whole system. It is one school that has gone too far.
    What about the schools in New York City where children as young as 5 are arrested for failing to listen to the teachers? What about schools that lose accredidation from the state? Should they still be allowed to teach when they have demonstrated that they cannot?

  5. #225
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    I truly don't understand why someone would think that training on how best to do a job would not make someone better at that job.
    I'm not saying it doesn't, I'm saying I've never seen any evidence that indicates that it does, in the case of teaching. And generally whenever I see a post starting with "I truly don't understand why someone would think..." in the absence of empirical evidence, that's a red flag to me that the conventional wisdom needs to be challenged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z
    I know of several training options that are said to improve scores. In a short search I found over 10 pages of articles about a study that showed that merit pay did not improve test scores. Here are a few other things I found.

    Study: Teacher Bonuses Don't Improve Test Scores : NPR
    I cited the problems with that conclusion in Post #33.

    Those are all good teaching approaches that seem to have empirical evidence behind them.

    This study specifically says that the training that benefited the students was only geared toward subject matter competence, rather than teaching methods. I agree that teachers need to know their subject inside and out...I just question whether training in teaching methodology actually benefits students.

    I'm not sure what conclusion you draw from this study.

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z
    I agree with most of these strategies.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-06-10 at 02:15 AM.
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  6. #226
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    You have no concept of how a school is run if you think $20,000 is a pittance.
    It IS a pittance. That was the upper bound I estimated for a LARGE school with several thousand students. Such a school will have a budget on the order of several MILLION dollars. I think it's worth spending a small fraction of 1% of the school's budget to find out if it's actually accomplishing its primary objective and who its best and worst performers are...rather than just guessing which teachers and school investments produce the best student results, and keeping incompetent teachers on the payroll for years because measuring their performance would be too expensive. But that's just me.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-06-10 at 02:25 AM.
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  7. #227
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Education is not your standard product, competition among schools and teachers won't work near as well as competition among students. If you can't get them to care about their own future, there is no hope.
    And to Justabubba ( I just knew some would fail to understand my comment about potentially paying a teacher who fails students more): The bit about failing relates to the above quote too. It's not about failing students to fail them. DOH! It's about holding kids back who haven't shown the skills to move to the next grade... and dragging those students down.

    Instead of pushing illiterates along, failing a kid has an effect. On him and others. They get the message they are expected to succeed before moving on. It puts pressures on the kid to learn. It's a clear message. You can't just show up and expect to be moved along. If they don't care... then they can sit in the third grade for two or three years. Or take summer school to catch up. Believe me, they'll care. If not, we always need people to pick fruit and vegetables.

    And Utah: Competition does work. If a school wants the finest teachers and pays them according to negotiations with the teacher (not some union scale), standards are elevated. Parents will notice. All boats will rise.

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    Last edited by zimmer; 10-06-10 at 08:31 AM.
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  8. #228
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No, actually it's about teacher pay. But regardless of what you think this thread is about, our educational system should be geared toward students, not teachers.
    Aren't you just the Mr Motherhood? Why don't you add something of substance instead of the usual confused drivel? We're not talking about curricula, we're talking about how to pay teachers. Try to keep up.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  9. #229
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Aren't you just the Mr Motherhood? Why don't you add something of substance instead of the usual confused drivel? We're not talking about curricula, we're talking about how to pay teachers. Try to keep up.
    Yep, some of us have been discussing that for the entire thread, instead of just poking in here a couple times to post silly one-line hit-and-run statements without actually participating in the conversation. Try to keep up.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-06-10 at 12:06 PM.
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  10. #230
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    The majority are unable to do it because of two factors. The first is that the parents have received a substandard education by the public indoctrination system. The second is that the government has made it to where both parents have to work due to the sheer amount of taxes people have to pay.
    One very glaring error in your philosophy....actually 2.....
    We don't RECEIVE an education, we take it. When teachers teach 30 kids in one classroom, and some do well, and some do not, it is NOT the teachers fault. He/She puts the information out, but SOME kids are listening, and others or not....
    And taxes? Taxes have been low for a decade or so, at least, thanks to Bush. Even letting the Bush tax cuts expire, taxes will still be lower than when I went to public schools.
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