View Poll Results: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

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  • Yes, they should be paid more each year they teach.

    4 8.33%
  • No (please explain how you think they should be paid)

    44 91.67%
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Thread: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

  1. #211
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I've actually looked quite a bit for what improves student results, but I haven't seen any evidence suggesting that more training has an effect. Perhaps you can link me to the study to which you are referring.
    I truly don't understand why someone would think that training on how best to do a job would not make someone better at that job. I know of several training options that are said to improve scores. In a short search I found over 10 pages of articles about a study that showed that merit pay did not improve test scores. Here are a few other things I found.

    Study: Teacher Bonuses Don't Improve Test Scores : NPR

    Raising Elementary Math Scores: Strategies to Help Elementary Students Do Better on Math Tests
    Teachers' Training, Class Size and Students' Outcomes: Learning from Administrative Forecasting Mistakes
    http://www.sitesbysheridan.com/ACTIONRSEARCHmath.pdf

    not a study, but interesting
    How to Improve National Math Scores - NYTimes.com
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  2. #212
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Kids are born with an innate ability to learn so no you do not have to teach that. Schooling numbs and kills the creative minds of the kids so they will follow orders and obey whoever is in charge. I remember that well from my 13 years in public indoctrination. Our schools perform worse out of the industrial world because it's not designed to teach, but to get kids to be good little robots and follow orders. This is why you see on the news all the time about students being arrested for jumping in puddles and not minding a teacher. Also, the student must be interested in learning those subjects and naturally will have a well rounded education as evidenced by the way charter and certain private schools are run. The student decides what classes they want to take because it interests them.
    I'm sorry that your experience was so bad. I can assure that this does not describe how I teach nor how the other teachers I know teach. What I think is damaging how kids look at education is all the testing that is now required. There is no room for flexibility. Study can't be guided by the interests of the students it has to be focused on what will be on the test.
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  3. #213
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Private schools cannot pick and choose students. They have to accept everyone if their parents can pay for it. It's against the law in every state to allow private schools to pick and choose. As far as excluding students, public schools do it all the time. It's called expulsion.
    It is very difficult to expel a student from public schools. Of course private schools can pick and chose. They usually do so on the basis of academic achievement. They can also kick out students who don't measure up or cause trouble. Just the fact that private school are limited to those who can afford it and more importantly, are willing to spend that money on their kids makes the comparison of public to private completely unfair.
    I know of a very few examples where home schooling has been done well. I know of way too many where the parents blamed the school for their kids' problems so they decide to home school. After a few years they send the kid back and they are years behind their age mates and still somehow this is the school's fault.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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  4. #214
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    I'm sorry that your experience was so bad. I can assure that this does not describe how I teach nor how the other teachers I know teach. What I think is damaging how kids look at education is all the testing that is now required. There is no room for flexibility. Study can't be guided by the interests of the students it has to be focused on what will be on the test.
    Every child goes through this, including you. Think back to how you learned in school. You had zero say on what classes to take and you had to learn via memorization. John Gatto was teacher of the year for New York and was drummed out because he got his students to learn. I suggest you read his free book that I linked to. It's eye opening on what the system does and how it was created for the sole purpose of turning out drones that cannot think for themselves or apply critical thought.

  5. #215
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So on the one hand, for $20,000 you could ALMOST hire one teacher's aide for a single class, who might or might not be effective, and who might or might not have any measurable impact on the students' achievement. But we'll never know, since we refuse to measure it and smugly ridicule any attempt to do so...

    On the other hand, we could spend the same amount of money (or probably a lot less) to analyze the data of every single student in the entire school, every single teacher in the entire school, cross-reference all the statistics based on the particular demographics and abilities of each class, compute what kind of results an average teacher would achieve, and determine exactly how effective all the teachers were for their specific classes. And we could then use this data to improve the overall quality of teachers and benefit ALL of the students in the school.

    Yet *my* idea wastes money.



    And neither they nor the administrators will ever know if they're actually doing that, since the school refused to shell out the pittance necessary to measure it.
    You have no concept of how a school is run if you think $20,000 is a pittance.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
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  6. #216
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    It is very difficult to expel a student from public schools. Of course private schools can pick and chose. They usually do so on the basis of academic achievement. They can also kick out students who don't measure up or cause trouble. Just the fact that private school are limited to those who can afford it and more importantly, are willing to spend that money on their kids makes the comparison of public to private completely unfair.
    I know of a very few examples where home schooling has been done well. I know of way too many where the parents blamed the school for their kids' problems so they decide to home school. After a few years they send the kid back and they are years behind their age mates and still somehow this is the school's fault.
    It's actually quite easy to be expelled from school. Bring a toy gun to school and we'll see how long you'll be able to attend. Ask too many questions and you will be expelled for causing trouble.

  7. #217
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    Every child goes through this, including you. Think back to how you learned in school. You had zero say on what classes to take and you had to learn via memorization. John Gatto was teacher of the year for New York and was drummed out because he got his students to learn. I suggest you read his free book that I linked to. It's eye opening on what the system does and how it was created for the sole purpose of turning out drones that cannot think for themselves or apply critical thought.
    I saw no link.

    I loved school. I had a great deal of choice in high school and took some really great classes. I was even able to help teach younger students. In some classes we learned by rote memorization when appropriate to the subject but in others we had great discussions. I had a science class in which we got to move through the book at our own pace doing the experiments ourselves. Education is not all it could be today due to over testing and interference by people(politicians) who know nothing about education. However, it is not the terrible place you seem to think it is.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

  8. #218
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Patriot View Post
    It's actually quite easy to be expelled from school. Bring a toy gun to school and we'll see how long you'll be able to attend. Ask too many questions and you will be expelled for causing trouble.
    Bringing a gun would likely get you expelled - and why not. Asking questions will not, nor should it. Like most things, it varies from state to state. I do have first hand knowledge of a student who beat up another student, having to be pulled off more than once, and she hit a teacher. She was not expelled.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

  9. #219
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    I saw no link.

    I loved school. I had a great deal of choice in high school and took some really great classes. I was even able to help teach younger students. In some classes we learned by rote memorization when appropriate to the subject but in others we had great discussions. I had a science class in which we got to move through the book at our own pace doing the experiments ourselves. Education is not all it could be today due to over testing and interference by people(politicians) who know nothing about education. However, it is not the terrible place you seem to think it is.
    Sorry, I had posted the link earlier with my literacy link. Here's the link. I'm glad that you had a positive experience with the government mill. Education has been on a steady decline due to the government. Everything the government touches turns to crap, which is a fact of life.

  10. #220
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    Bringing a gun would likely get you expelled - and why not. Asking questions will not, nor should it. Like most things, it varies from state to state. I do have first hand knowledge of a student who beat up another student, having to be pulled off more than once, and she hit a teacher. She was not expelled.
    You missed the qualifier for gun which was toy. A toy gun, especially ones made for action figures, isn't a threat to anyone, but this eight year old is paying for zero common sense by the school. I went to a rural Iowa school, so we were allowed to bring in shotguns for PE's skeet shooting. The PE class also taught gun safety.

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