View Poll Results: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

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  • Yes, they should be paid more each year they teach.

    4 8.33%
  • No (please explain how you think they should be paid)

    44 91.67%
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Thread: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

  1. #161
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    How about you volunteer at a school one day a week....I suggest 8th grade, in a community with gang problems....
    Relevance?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill
    These are children we are talking about, not kitchen appliances...
    ...which makes your refusal to consider a statistical, evidence-based approach to teaching all the more appalling. If you adopted that approach when buying your kitchen appliances, all that would happen is that you'd overpay for shoddy merchandise, rather than perpetuate failing schools that produce more dropouts and criminals.
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  2. #162
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    So many people think of teachers as pubic servants, with emphasis on servant. Is your primary concern here the expense involved with educating kids, or the results, or both? Educating kids now is far cheaper than incarcerating them later on.
    Both but it isn't an all or nothing game.

    The average spent on education from all levels of government is approximately $10k a year.
    Now that is an average and some schools spend much more, while others spend much less.
    Still though, when I have kids knocking on my door hawking stuff to "support our schools" I get somewhat suspicious and critical of how the money is being spent, when it is adequate already.
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  3. #163
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    You are being inconsistent. Teaching will never be considered a prestigious profession if you insist on labeling them public servants.
    It really doesn't matter what you label them. My point is that good teachers are good teachers, regardless of how many professional degrees they hold. You can find PhD's who are horrible teachers, and people who never finished college who are great teachers.
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  4. #164
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That's what remedial classes are for.



    We can compare students to their own performance from the previous year.



    If you have other metrics that you think are useful measurements of student performance, I'm certainly willing to consider them. I think it would be useful to have other data points to consider, if it can be shown that they are an accurate barometer of a student's ability. My main objection is the idea that because test scores are not perfect, we should just throw up our hands and not bother to objectively measure student progress at all. But I agree that there may be other ways to measure their progress...and if those ways can be identified, by all means let's use them too.
    What do you do with child who needs remedial classes but the parents refuse. Also, those remedial students still take the standarized tests. This is part of why we compare so poorly with other nations. They don't test everyone, we do.

    I think that the salary should be determined by experience and education. Good teachers take on extra duties and good schools find ways to pay them for these duties such as tutoring. Imagine judging a dentist on the number of cavities his patients have. But, the dentist can't control how well the patients brush or if they brush. He can't control what they eat. All he can do is clean their teeth and educate them on dental care they best he can. That is the situation a teacher is in.
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  5. #165
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'm all for making teaching more prestigious if it will help attract higher performers, but ultimately they ARE public servants. Their mission is to educate children, and it really doesn't matter how many master's degrees or how many professional certifications they have. In my mind it doesn't really matter if they're "professionals." I'd be open to hiring teachers who never even finished college if they're capable of producing student achievement.
    Teaching is not a job anyone can do. It takes training, experience, and education. Your last statement is insulting to all teachers. Teaching is a profession that requires at least a 4-year degree. Many teachers have even more education. This is education that they paid for, often attending classes at night while working full time during the day. It is insulting to imply that any monkey can teach.
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  6. #166
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    Teaching is not a job anyone can do. It takes training, experience, and education. Your last statement is insulting to all teachers. Teaching is a profession that requires at least a 4-year degree. Many teachers have even more education. This is education that they paid for, often attending classes at night while working full time during the day. It is insulting to imply that any monkey can teach.
    Except that history shows that before the advent of government indoctrination centers parents taught their kids or sent them to private school. We did turn out pretty well with that system.

    BTW, I vote no because government indoctrination centers should be closed.

  7. #167
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Those who can't do, teach.
    Those who can't do, or teach, bitch about those who do.....
    All this jealousy about teacher pay and benefits is silly. If you think it is such a good deal, become a teacher!!!!

    Here is a suggestion....
    Try running for a school board position on a platform based on some of the crap posted here, and the parents will NOT vote for you.
    That means that your opinions are not supported by the majority. All you can do is take YOUR children out of the system and put them in a school that meets your demands, if you can find one...
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  8. #168
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    What do you do with child who needs remedial classes but the parents refuse.
    Why should the parent be given the option to refuse? If the kid needs remedial classes, put him in remedial classes. And if the parent hates the idea that much, they should be able to choose a different school.

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z
    Also, those remedial students still take the standarized tests. This is part of why we compare so poorly with other nations. They don't test everyone, we do.
    The innate abilities of a teacher's class can be controlled for, when determining how effective the teacher is. The teacher of a remedial class would not be expected to produce the same quality students as the teacher of an advanced class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z
    I think that the salary should be determined by experience and education.
    Why? Do those things affect student outcomes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z
    Good teachers take on extra duties and good schools find ways to pay them for these duties such as tutoring. Imagine judging a dentist on the number of cavities his patients have. But, the dentist can't control how well the patients brush or if they brush. He can't control what they eat. All he can do is clean their teeth and educate them on dental care they best he can. That is the situation a teacher is in.
    A better analogy is judging the dentist on how effectively he fills the cavities that his patients *DO* have. But let's examine your analogy a little more closely: If you have two dentists at the same facility with roughly the same demographic of patients, why SHOULDN'T you be able to judge them on this? If they're both educating their patients on dental care, but one dentist's patients are doing a better job, it sounds to me like he's doing something right. Maybe the other dentist should learn from him and adopt his techniques, instead of just throwing up his hands and saying that his patients are a lost cause.
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  9. #169
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Like this:
    That is better than some plans I have read. I fear that since your "bad" scenario would be easiest it would be the norm.
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  10. #170
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Those who can't do, teach.
    Those who can't do, or teach, bitch about those who do.....
    All this jealousy about teacher pay and benefits is silly. If you think it is such a good deal, become a teacher!!!!
    I don't want to be a teacher, in that sense.
    I have other dreams for myself, it doesn't mean that I can't criticize how my tax dollars are being spent.

    I home school my kids, I don't get the benefit of the taxes, I'm required to pay, so it's in my best interest to reduce the taxes, so I can use that money for my child's schooling needs.


    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Here is a suggestion....
    Try running for a school board position on a platform based on some of the crap posted here, and the parents will NOT vote for you.
    That means that your opinions are not supported by the majority. All you can do is take YOUR children out of the system and put them in a school that meets your demands, if you can find one...
    Majority rule ≠ correct course of action.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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