View Poll Results: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

Voters
48. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, they should be paid more each year they teach.

    4 8.33%
  • No (please explain how you think they should be paid)

    44 91.67%
Page 16 of 31 FirstFirst ... 6141516171826 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 304

Thread: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

  1. #151
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    Sadly, one child can change the dynamic of a classroom. Even with a great teacher more time is spent on troubled children and less on everyone else.
    That's what remedial classes are for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z
    Additionally, classes vary a great deal from year to year. One of the problems with standarized tests is that it compares this year's 5th grade to last year's 5th grade. A super bright group can go through the school and make everyone else look bad by comparison. There is nothing the teacher can do about this.
    We can compare students to their own performance from the previous year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z
    The variables are just too great to evaluate teachers solely on test scores.
    If you have other metrics that you think are useful measurements of student performance, I'm certainly willing to consider them. I think it would be useful to have other data points to consider, if it can be shown that they are an accurate barometer of a student's ability. My main objection is the idea that because test scores are not perfect, we should just throw up our hands and not bother to objectively measure student progress at all. But I agree that there may be other ways to measure their progress...and if those ways can be identified, by all means let's use them too.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-06-10 at 12:16 AM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  2. #152
    Sage
    UtahBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,687

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The retirement income generated does not equal the contributions put forward.

    Using rough numbers, getting $25k a year in dividends, in a totally self funded account, requires somewhere in the area of $1 million and teachers typically drawn much higher retirement incomes, than that.
    that would be 2.5%....who in their right mind buys an annuity that pays that little? Most teacher retirement accounts are managed by states, and they invest the contributions carefully. Odd thing about Arizona, teachers were not allowed to join the insurance plans that state employees have, which were better and cheaper. This whole medical insurance thing is sometimes a scam. Why would a very large school district charge more for medical insurance than a major utility (where I worked) that has fewer employees? Answer is, the utility is a for profit employer. Schools are not, and are subject to the whims of the voters.
    Teachers are professionals, not public servants, but so many people can't see that....
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  3. #153
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    that would be 2.5%....who in their right mind buys an annuity that pays that little? Most teacher retirement accounts are managed by states, and they invest the contributions carefully. Odd thing about Arizona, teachers were not allowed to join the insurance plans that state employees have, which were better and cheaper. This whole medical insurance thing is sometimes a scam. Why would a very large school district charge more for medical insurance than a major utility (where I worked) that has fewer employees? Answer is, the utility is a for profit employer. Schools are not, and are subject to the whims of the voters.
    Teachers are professionals, not public servants, but so many people can't see that....
    That was using rough numbers of course.

    I see that but I don't think teachers should be unionized because they receive funding from the state.
    Lobbying for more/better/stable benefits means a tax increase but not necessarily providing a better service.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #154
    Sage
    UtahBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,687

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Those variables can all be controlled for, when evaluating the teachers based on their results.
    How about you volunteer at a school one day a week....I suggest 8th grade, in a community with gang problems....
    These are children we are talking about, not kitchen appliances...
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  5. #155
    Professor
    Layla_Z's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Last Seen
    05-31-17 @ 08:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    1,440
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Those variables can all be controlled for, when evaluating the teachers based on their results.
    How do you control for bad parenting, disturbed children, disruptive children, and insane additional duties that have nothing to do with educating a child?
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

  6. #156
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Teachers are professionals, not public servants, but so many people can't see that....
    I'm all for making teaching more prestigious if it will help attract higher performers, but ultimately they ARE public servants. Their mission is to educate children, and it really doesn't matter how many master's degrees or how many professional certifications they have. In my mind it doesn't really matter if they're "professionals." I'd be open to hiring teachers who never even finished college if they're capable of producing student achievement.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  7. #157
    Sage
    UtahBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,687

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That was using rough numbers of course.

    I see that but I don't think teachers should be unionized because they receive funding from the state.
    Lobbying for more/better/stable benefits means a tax increase but not necessarily providing a better service.
    So many people think of teachers as pubic servants, with emphasis on servant. Is your primary concern here the expense involved with educating kids, or the results, or both? Educating kids now is far cheaper than incarcerating them later on.
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  8. #158
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Layla_Z View Post
    How do you control for bad parenting, disturbed children, disruptive children, and insane additional duties that have nothing to do with educating a child?
    Like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I think some people in this thread have misconceptions about how merit pay could work.

    Bad: "Mr. Smith's 4th grade class class reads at an average 5.0 grade level, and Mrs. Jones' 4th grade class reads at an average 3.5 grade level. Therefore Mr. Smith is a better teacher than Mrs. Jones."

    Better: "Mr. Smith's class reads at an average 5.0 grade level, but those same students read at a 4.5 grade level last year. Mrs. Jones' class reads at an average 3.5 grade level, compared to only a 2.5 grade level last year. Therefore Mrs. Jones is a better teacher than Mr. Smith."

    Even better: "Mrs. Jones' class is 60% African-American, 20% Hispanic, and 20% White. 82% of her students are eligible for free lunches, and 15% speak English as a second language. The families in the district earn an average income of $20,000. For an average teacher of this particular remedial reading class, it is appropriate to expect the students to improve by 0.692 grade levels per year on average. Mrs. Jones' class improved by 1.0 grade levels, making her a phenomenal teacher."
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  9. #159
    Professor
    Layla_Z's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Last Seen
    05-31-17 @ 08:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    1,440
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I can't speak for your state, but in Illinois, teachers have a defined BENEFIT plan. Public employees are just about the ONLY employees that get defined benefit pension plans. All the rest of us get 401K's or the like. In Illinois, teachers' retirement benefits are far enough ahead of the curve as to be bankrupting their own system and bankrupting Illinois. It is not unusual at all for a teacher (a TEACHER, not an administrator) in Illinois to retire with $75,000 or more in annual pension benefits.
    Each state different. Nothing that you describe is true where I teach. What is true is that it is extrememly difficult to support a family on a teacher's salary. What is also true is that I have been teaching 16 years and I don't make over $40K. I work in one of the states with the lowest pay but the highest test scores.
    ~Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
    ~I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    ~If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting?
    George Carlin

  10. #160
    Sage
    UtahBill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Utah
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,687

    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I'm all for making teaching more prestigious if it will help attract higher performers, but ultimately they ARE public servants. Their mission is to educate children, and it really doesn't matter how many master's degrees or how many professional certifications they have. In my mind it doesn't really matter if they're "professionals." I'd be open to hiring teachers who never even finished college if they're capable of producing student achievement.
    You are being inconsistent. Teaching will never be considered a prestigious profession if you insist on labeling them public servants.
    Now, politicians can be labeled that, but they aren't, and too many of them are not in it for the salary paid, but for what they can steal....
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

Page 16 of 31 FirstFirst ... 6141516171826 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •