View Poll Results: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

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  • Yes, they should be paid more each year they teach.

    4 8.33%
  • No (please explain how you think they should be paid)

    44 91.67%
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Thread: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

  1. #131
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    On a related note, anyone who hasn't seen "Waiting For Superman" needs to go see it. Right now. It's a documentary about the sorry state of our schools and how they can be reformed. It features interviews with reformists like Geoffrey Canada, Michelle Rhee, and Bill Gates. With your movie ticket, you also get a $15 charity gift to give to a classroom of your choice. I gave mine to a 2nd grade teacher at a poor school in DC who needed some books for her kids.
    I will watch it, however, like almost all documentaries out there, remind yourselves that they typically go for the most impacting narrative they can pick. Beware of oversimplifications, because it will be in the documentarian's best interests to have it "stick with you" rather than presenting something "boring, professorial, and bogged down with details."

    It is incredibly difficult to find a smart documentary.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  2. #132
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    Simple question. Maybe a simple answer.

    Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    If so, why?
    If not, how would you revamp the salary schedules if you were in charge?
    Paid purely based on years of experience. HELL NO!

    1st bust the unions.
    Second have the schools negotiate contracts with the teachers one-on-one.
    Third; give parents vouchers to shop their kids schools.

    Nothing like competition to bring out the best in anyone.

    Of course, the free market is a wholly foreign concept to most teachers.

    PS. My best paid teacher might just be the one who fails the most kids. Quite possible.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 10-05-10 at 05:25 AM.
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  3. #133
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Paid purely based on years of experience. HELL NO!

    1st bust the unions.
    why? the states which have unions tend to have student performance scores that best those states which do not recognize teacher unions
    if the better educated students are from unionized states, it makes no sense to abolish union activity ... unless you want those students to be as stupid as the ones taught in the non-unionized states
    Second have the schools negotiate contracts with the teachers one-on-one.
    and this will accomplish what, other than requiring considerable time at a cost of objectivity?
    Third; give parents vouchers to shop their kids schools.
    so, you want to subsidize the expense of those who send their kids to private schools
    vouchers would be abused overnite by charlatans who offered to operate schools at a discount so the sorry parents, those interested only in how the vouchers could benefit them rather than their kids, would get a kickback of their voucher balance. we can only imagine how (in)effective those private schools would operate
    Nothing like competition to bring out the best in anyone.
    tell us exactly how that competition would improve outcomes and why

    Of course, the free market is a wholly foreign concept to most teachers.
    teachers do not live in our capitalist economy. that is stunning news [/sarcasm]

    PS. My best paid teacher might just be the one who fails the most kids. Quite possible.

    .
    now there is an effective approach [/sarcasm]
    why teach kids when we can fail them instead, to be found to be a superior teacher
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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  4. #134
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    why? the states which have unions tend to have student performance scores that best those states which do not recognize teacher unions. if the better educated students are from unionized states, it makes no sense to abolish union activity ... unless you want those students to be as stupid as the ones taught in the non-unionized states.

    and this will accomplish what, other than requiring considerable time at a cost of objectivity?

    so, you want to subsidize the expense of those who send their kids to private schools
    vouchers would be abused overnite by charlatans who offered to operate schools at a discount so the sorry parents, those interested only in how the vouchers could benefit them rather than their kids, would get a kickback of their voucher balance. we can only imagine how (in)effective those private schools would operate

    tell us exactly how that competition would improve outcomes and why


    teachers do not live in our capitalist economy. that is stunning news [/sarcasm]


    now there is an effective approach [/sarcasm]
    why teach kids when we can fail them instead, to be found to be a superior teacher
    A link that proves unionized teachers are better teachers or that their students test out better. Please?

    No public sector should be unionized. Period. When the private sector is unionized, negotiation takes place between the "profit maker" and the "worker." If there's not enough profit, union demands cannot be met. In the public sector, cronies give away the store and expect taxpayers to make up the difference.

    As to vouchers and competition, please link to one example where competition doesn't improve results. Especially in poor performing inner-city schools, parents should have the means to remove their kids from these destructive environments and put them in schools whose primary focus in on education rather than gang-babysitting.

    American schools are failing because they are organized according to a bureaucratic, monopolistic model.
    What Would A School Voucher Buy The Real Cost Of Private Schools

    In fact, Education Department figures show that the average private elementary school tuition in America is less than $2,500. The average tuition for all private schools, elementary and secondary, is $3,116, or less than half of the cost per pupil in the average public school, $6,857. A survey of private schools in Indianapolis, Jersey City, San Francisco, and Atlanta shows that there are many options available to families with $3,000 to spend on a child's education. Even more options would no doubt appear if all parents were armed with $3,000 vouchers.
    Same link.
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  5. #135
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    why? the states which have unions tend to have student performance scores that best those states which do not recognize teacher unions
    if the better educated students are from unionized states, it makes no sense to abolish union activity ... unless you want those students to be as stupid as the ones taught in the non-unionized states
    There is very little correlation at the state level. Some of the states with the highest dropout rates - California and DC come to mind - have very strong teachers' unions. Some of the states with the lowest dropout rates - the Dakotas, Wyoming, Montana - have comparatively weak teachers' unions. But regardless, the problem is at the LOCAL level. Every state has good schools and bad schools. The question is how they actually address that discrepancy. And agonizing over how unfair it is to the teachers to fire incompetents in failing schools misses the entire point of the education system: to educate.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba
    and this will accomplish what, other than requiring considerable time at a cost of objectivity?
    Merit pay is objective. If your numbers are good, you get a bonus. If they are consistently bad year after year, you get the axe.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba
    so, you want to subsidize the expense of those who send their kids to private schools
    vouchers would be abused overnite by charlatans who offered to operate schools at a discount so the sorry parents, those interested only in how the vouchers could benefit them rather than their kids, would get a kickback of their voucher balance. we can only imagine how (in)effective those private schools would operate
    Private schools would still have to be accredited by the government in order to qualify for vouchers, much like students at accredited private universities are eligible for federal Stafford loans.

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba
    tell us exactly how that competition would improve outcomes and why
    Because the schools would have to improve to show that they are better than the school next door. And if they don't, all the students (and funding) will leave.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 10-05-10 at 01:14 PM.
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  6. #136
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Paid purely based on years of experience. HELL NO!

    1st bust the unions.
    Second have the schools negotiate contracts with the teachers one-on-one.
    Third; give parents vouchers to shop their kids schools.

    Nothing like competition to bring out the best in anyone.

    Of course, the free market is a wholly foreign concept to most teachers.

    PS. My best paid teacher might just be the one who fails the most kids. Quite possible.

    .
    Education is not your standard product, competition among schools and teachers won't work near as well as competition among students. If you can't get them to care about their own future, there is no hope.
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  7. #137
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Education is not your standard product, competition among schools and teachers won't work near as well as competition among students. If you can't get them to care about their own future, there is no hope.
    bravo, quote of the day
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  8. #138
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    I don't suppose there is any way to get violent and disruptive kids (due to the school being, say, in or near a gang neighborhood) sent to a different school designed around teaching that type?

    Nah...

    Regarding the issue of parents not doing enough - I personally think that can be remedied to an extent by a good teacher.

    But by no means totally.

    Still, if you could get a generation or so of kids who, while not learning certain ideas from their parents, have acquired them in school, then perhaps when THEY are the parents…

    It would seem to follow that the public school system is partly to blame for the problems with parents…

    Maybe it’s a circular thing?

    Meh.
    Education.

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  9. #139
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I don't suppose there is any way to get violent and disruptive kids (due to the school being, say, in or near a gang neighborhood) sent to a different school designed around teaching that type?

    Nah...

    Regarding the issue of parents not doing enough - I personally think that can be remedied to an extent by a good teacher.

    But by no means totally.

    Still, if you could get a generation or so of kids who, while not learning certain ideas from their parents, have acquired them in school, then perhaps when THEY are the parents…

    It would seem to follow that the public school system is partly to blame for the problems with parents…

    Maybe it’s a circular thing?

    Meh.
    Teachers train to teach, not modify bad behavior, which BTW is not easy to do. If the parents cannot prepare their kids to behave in a classroom environment, they should teach them at home, at their own expense..
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  10. #140
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Teachers train to teach, not modify bad behavior, which BTW is not easy to do. If the parents cannot prepare their kids to behave in a classroom environment, they should teach them at home, at their own expense..
    You know damn well that if they cannot care enough to prepare for and support their kids in school, they sure as HELL couldn't be bothered to homeschool em'.

    Edit: And, really, that was my point - teachers are not (usually) well trained in working against bad-behaving students - thus the separate school or something, with teachers trained to handle such.
    Last edited by The Mark; 10-05-10 at 11:12 PM.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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