View Poll Results: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

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  • Yes, they should be paid more each year they teach.

    4 8.33%
  • No (please explain how you think they should be paid)

    44 91.67%
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Thread: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

  1. #111
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    This thread is about teachers is it not? I think it is.
    No, actually it's about teacher pay. But regardless of what you think this thread is about, our educational system should be geared toward students, not teachers.
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  2. #112
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I said that teacher quality is the most important variable in our education system. A student's innate ability lies outside the purview of things that can be changed by government policy.

    Furthermore, the best teacher in the world might not be able to teach a moron to be a brain surgeon, but he can at least teach a moron to be a productive member of society. At least in the aggregate, if not in all individual cases.

    all true, but many times the teacher gets the blame for crap outside their control. especially in High School, in many cases by the time you get a kid in your class, he/she is so far behind that it is simply impossible for you to teach them.


    How can you teach a kid chemistry if they can't even do simple math?

    How can you teach them history if they can't freaking read?

    the elementary grades, IMHO, are where the ball is being dropped. No one wants to "hurt feelings" or make a kid feel bad, so they just pass their stupid ass along without teaching them dick. so then they get to HS with a ****ing 2nd grade reading ability and can't do more than add 2+2. then the High school teachers get called out and abused because these kids fail.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    No, actually it's about teacher pay. But regardless of what you think this thread is about, our educational system should be geared toward students, not teachers.
    good luck getting quality people into the profession without considering the needs of the teachers. that's one of the problems with the system today. the only ones in it are

    a. people who are too dumb to do anything else, so they teach

    b. people who are married to someone that makes good money so they don't really need to make much money

    c. people who love kids and teaching so much that they work at a demanding usually low paying job
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  4. #114
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    I think some people in this thread have misconceptions about how merit pay could work.

    Bad: "Mr. Smith's 4th grade class class reads at an average 5.0 grade level, and Mrs. Jones' 4th grade class reads at an average 3.5 grade level. Therefore Mr. Smith is a better teacher than Mrs. Jones."

    Better: "Mr. Smith's class reads at an average 5.0 grade level, but those same students read at a 4.5 grade level last year. Mrs. Jones' class reads at an average 3.5 grade level, compared to only a 2.5 grade level last year. Therefore Mrs. Jones is a better teacher than Mr. Smith."

    Even better: "Mrs. Jones' class is 60% African-American, 20% Hispanic, and 20% White. 82% of her students are eligible for free lunches, and 15% speak English as a second language. The families in the district earn an average income of $20,000. For an average teacher of this particular remedial reading class, it is appropriate to expect the students to improve by 0.692 grade levels per year on average. Mrs. Jones' class improved by 1.0 grade levels, making her a phenomenal teacher."
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  5. #115
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    That last example is acceptable to me.

  6. #116
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I think some people in this thread have misconceptions about how merit pay could work.

    Bad: "Mr. Smith's 4th grade class class reads at an average 5.0 grade level, and Mrs. Jones' 4th grade class reads at an average 3.5 grade level. Therefore Mr. Smith is a better teacher than Mrs. Jones."

    Better: "Mr. Smith's class reads at an average 5.0 grade level, but those same students read at a 4.5 grade level last year. Mrs. Jones' class reads at an average 3.5 grade level, compared to only a 2.5 grade level last year. Therefore Mrs. Jones is a better teacher than Mr. Smith."

    Even better: "Mrs. Jones' class is 60% African-American, 20% Hispanic, and 20% White. 82% of her students are eligible for free lunches, and 15% speak English as a second language. The families in the district earn an average income of $20,000. For an average teacher of this particular remedial reading class, it is appropriate to expect the students to improve by 0.692 grade levels per year on average. Mrs. Jones' class improved by 1.0 grade levels, making her a phenomenal teacher."

    school administrators are notoriously lazy, you can bet your ass that 90% of the time you are going to get the "bad" scenario. the "even better" scenario would take too much time and effort on their part.
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  7. #117
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    school administrators are notoriously lazy, you can bet your ass that 90% of the time you are going to get the "bad" scenario. the "even better" scenario would take too much time and effort on their part.
    They don't have to do it themselves. They're already collecting all the data under NCLB anyway. All they need to do is turn it over to a company like IBM, Oracle, or many smaller ones (after stripping out the names or any other confidential information), and outsource all the data analytics to the experts.
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  8. #118
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    They don't have to do it themselves. They're already collecting all the data under NCLB anyway. All they need to do is turn it over to a company like IBM, Oracle, or many smaller ones (after stripping out the names or any other confidential information), and outsource all the data analytics to the experts.
    and with all the school systems and state govts screaming "we're underfunded" who is going to pay for it?

    I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, just that in today's political and economic climate I don't see how it would be implemented any other way than poorly.
    Last edited by OscarB63; 10-04-10 at 01:44 PM.
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  9. #119
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    and with all the school systems and state govts screaming "we're underfunded" who is going to pay for it?
    How much does the average incompetent teacher earn, including benefits? Even if it did nothing more than eliminate the two worst teachers in each school, it would justify the cost.
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  10. #120
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    Re: Should teachers be paid purely based on years of experience?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    How much does the average incompetent teacher earn, including benefits? Even if it did nothing more than eliminate the two worst teachers in each school, it would justify the cost.
    not really because you would have to replace them with two competent teachers...who you would then have to pay more.
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