View Poll Results: Doesn't a middle class tax cut also benefit the rich?

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Thread: Doesn't a middle class tax cut also benefit the the Rich?

  1. #61
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Doesn't a middle class tax cut also benefit the the Rich?

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    Sorry, I dont understand. Please be more spacific.
    I thought a libertarian would understand that a tax cut is not giving taxpayers anything. its stealing less from them



  2. #62
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    Re: Doesn't a middle class tax cut also benefit the the Rich?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I thought a libertarian would understand that a tax cut is not giving taxpayers anything. its stealing less from them
    I did not make the connection you were making. You are confusing two issues.

    1) Giving citizens something and

    2) Paying the bills.

    The destinction may be lost on you because you cant think of anyone but yourself.

  3. #63
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    Re: Doesn't a middle class tax cut also benefit the the Rich?

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    I did not make the connection you were making. You are confusing two issues.

    1) Giving citizens something and

    2) Paying the bills.

    The destinction may be lost on you because you cant think of anyone but yourself.
    I can think rather well thank you and I certainly understand this issue far more than someone who doesn't even understand the philosophical groundings of the group they claim to be a member of

    Tax cuts do not give anyone anything. They mean the government takes less of property already owned by the citizens.



  4. #64
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    Re: Doesn't a middle class tax cut also benefit the the Rich?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Reckless spending like starting two wars?
    So, rich folks started two wars? Howdayafigger?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  5. #65
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Doesn't a middle class tax cut also benefit the the Rich?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, rich folks started two wars? Howdayafigger?
    we run the world

    Hell I even own a couple black helicopters that are piloted by free masons. We use them to attend skull and bones meetings in a secret location near Yale university and then hop over to the Trilateral Commission meetings in NYC.



  6. #66
    Educator ender1's Avatar
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    Re: Doesn't a middle class tax cut also benefit the the Rich?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I can think rather well thank you and I certainly understand this issue far more than someone who doesn't even understand the philosophical groundings of the group they claim to be a member of

    Tax cuts do not give anyone anything. They mean the government takes less of property already owned by the citizens.
    You have questioned my understanding of what a libertarian is in almost every post. I am libertarian and understand quite well what that means. I have stated several times that it is my desire to have a smaller government but we have trillions to pay back. All you ever say is dont take mine. Mine Mine Mine. I asked you how we should pay that back and you came up with a consumption tax. Awful idea. That would kill our economy and is a regressive tax. Stop complaining and offer a REAL solution.

  7. #67
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    Re: Doesn't a middle class tax cut also benefit the the Rich?

    Quote Originally Posted by ender1 View Post
    You have questioned my understanding of what a libertarian is in almost every post. I am libertarian and understand quite well what that means. I have stated several times that it is my desire to have a smaller government but we have trillions to pay back. All you ever say is dont take mine. Mine Mine Mine. I asked you how we should pay that back and you came up with a consumption tax. Awful idea. That would kill our economy and is a regressive tax. Stop complaining and offer a REAL solution.
    Here is why I want a consumption tax

    1) those who have illegal incomes don't pay much federa tax. It would capture billions of dollars made off of the drug trade

    2) it would get rid of much of the IRS. I just got done signing a bunch of tax forms earlier tonight after an extension. Americans pay billions of dollars in terms of time and money to figure out their taxes. Having run a small business its not much more work to collect federal taxes on top of state taxes

    3) it would prevent the already too powerful congress from having the power to buy votes by telling one group that they can get what they want while others pay for it.

    4) the IRS is a huge source of power for the government-get rid of income taxes and you get rid of lots of power. Indeed, during debates on the income tax about a century or so ago, an Indiana Senator proposed a sales tax and an income tax proponent noted a sales tax didn't give the government near as much power

    I know jacking up taxes on a small percentage of the tax payers means the government will keep spending because most of the voters won't see any reason to stop spending

    seems to me if you really want less government you have to support a system that will encourage the majority of people to want less government and the only way to do that with the nanny state addicts is to make them suffer financially for more government



  8. #68
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    Re: Doesn't a middle class tax cut also benefit the the Rich?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    people get tired of being milked and get nothing back in return. those targeted for tax hikes by obama will get no additional benefits for that soaking. you miss the point that the politically expedient act of soaking the rich only causes more and more spending as those who want the spending have no reason to reign it in since they aren't paying for it

    if people are expected to carry most of the load in paying for government services they damn well ought to get additional goverment benefits which certainly is not the case now
    Let's deal in facts. Obama is not targeting tax hikes. The temporary tax relief of 2001 is expiring. There are no tax hikes. We are only discussing whether tax relief should be continued, and if so, to what extent. The additional benefit of not turning temporary tax relief into something permanent is revenue enhancement (last time I checked, the government needs to work toward a balanced budget). The big question is what benefit, if any, does the government get from making these cuts permanent, particularly on taxable income levels in excess of $250K, a level at which the benefit is most hypothetical, at best.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 09-30-10 at 12:13 AM.

  9. #69
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    Re: Doesn't a middle class tax cut also benefit the the Rich?

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Let's deal in facts. Obama is not targeting tax hikes. The temporary tax relief of 2001 is expiring. There are no tax hikes. We are only discussing whether tax relief should be continued, and if so, to what extent. The additional benefit of not turning temporary tax relief into something permanent is revenue enhancement (last time I checked, the government needs to work toward a balanced budget). The big question is what benefit, if any, does the government get from making these cuts permanent, particularly on taxable income levels in excess of $250K, a level at which the benefit is most hypothetical, at best.
    there have been other tax hikes. I tend to look at things from the long term and the long term harm of making a small minority pay more and more taxes has several problems that I have laid out many times before

    the dems have no desire to cut spending because spending money on their voters is what gets them votes



  10. #70
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    Re: Doesn't a middle class tax cut also benefit the the Rich?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    there have been other tax hikes. I tend to look at things from the long term and the long term harm of making a small minority pay more and more taxes has several problems that I have laid out many times before

    the dems have no desire to cut spending because spending money on their voters is what gets them votes
    The solution is a mix of spending cuts, tax increases and an improved economy. It is a blend, there is no single answer.

    I am coming around to the notion that tax cuts should be extending on those making over $250K, with the marginal rate on incomes in excess of $1MM increased to 50%. The bifurcation of economic classes only serves to weaken this country long-term. There is no reason for the expontentially increasing ratio of CEO/Mail room pay that we have experienced in this country. The very high marginal tax rates pre-Reagan did serve to dis-incentivize very high executive pay in favor of re-investment and better pay for rank and file workers.

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