View Poll Results: Did God create perfection?

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  • YES!

    8 19.51%
  • NO!

    17 41.46%
  • It is OUR perception that something is not perfect!

    10 24.39%
  • OTHER / I Dont Know

    6 14.63%
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Thread: Did God Create Perfection?

  1. #31
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    Re: Did God Create Perfection?

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    I'm still curious as to why he needs us to believe in him, isn't living a life in which you treat others well with respect good enough to go to Heaven? I picture the whole God situation being like Monsters Inc.

    He needs belief to fuel the massive consumption of electricity in Heaven!!
    Goes doesn't need anyone to believe in Him. In fact, belief isn't really what he desires. The Bible says even the demons believe in God yet tremble. People are sent to hell not because our bad outweighs the good, but because they have sin and sin separates one from God and merits judgement. What is "good" but a personally objective term? Why should God honor what we hold to be "good?" Why should we be able to judge ourselves when we are not the law maker? We can't forgive our own sins or atone for them. God desires for people to repent so that they may receive mercy and forgiveness of sins because God as the judge has already taken the punishment (death on the cross). God doesn't need people to believe in Him like some emotionally starved teenager.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Did God Create Perfection?

    I think the OP should have defined ‘perfection’ first.
    I define ‘perfect’ as entirely without any flaws, defects or shortcomings.
    If so, I voted NO.
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

  3. #33
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    Re: Did God Create Perfection?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    No, I don't think she did.
    *taking PBrauer's Man Card*
    *YOINK!*
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  4. #34
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    Re: Did God Create Perfection?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    *taking PBrauer's Man Card*
    *YOINK!*
    YOINK? What's that.. your 'man noise'?
    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice....shame on me.

  5. #35
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    Re: Did God Create Perfection?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Goes doesn't need anyone to believe in Him. In fact, belief isn't really what he desires. The Bible says even the demons believe in God yet tremble. People are sent to hell not because our bad outweighs the good, but because they have sin and sin separates one from God and merits judgement. What is "good" but a personally objective term? Why should God honor what we hold to be "good?" Why should we be able to judge ourselves when we are not the law maker? We can't forgive our own sins or atone for them. God desires for people to repent so that they may receive mercy and forgiveness of sins because God as the judge has already taken the punishment (death on the cross). God doesn't need people to believe in Him like some emotionally starved teenager.
    But if God were a real thing I think he would do so much better, he would care about every last living thing. He would provide bountiful evidence that he indeed existed, last I checked Christianity is extremely sparce on evidence. I for one can look at nature and the universe and conclude that no "God" that we know of is real. Far too easy of an explanation that doesn't even attempt to explain the next question that begs to be answered "Where did this so called God come from". Thanks for trying to help me understand though.
    I use a lot of satire and sarcasm so keep that in mind when reading my posts.

  6. #36
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    Re: Did God Create Perfection?

    God created mankind with free will. The ability to choose good or evil. The freedom to choose God or not. Otherwise, how could love be genuine if there was never a choice?
    Mankind sins, i.e. disobeys God, and is therefore imperfect. God is perfect, heaven is perfect. If you aren't perfect, you don't get in. Seemingly, this creates a dilemma. God is just and God is merciful. I'm sure he'll forgive the joke, but God is the first lawyer because he presented a loophole, allowing him to remain true to justice and mercy.

  7. #37
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    Re: Did God Create Perfection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    Maybe what you consider Gods failures are actually a part of the overall plan for man and the Universe.
    So God wills evil? That more or less refutes the notion that God is perfect.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  8. #38
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    Re: Did God Create Perfection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    A perfect being could chose to make something that was imperfect so long as it's reasons for doing so was perfect.
    How? How can something limited to creating perfection by its own constrictions create imperfection? A perfect will is by definition perfect, therefore without flaws. How can it will something it cannot do?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #39
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    Re: Did God Create Perfection?

    If man was made in god's image, then god is far from perfect. The notion that humans are perfect, biologically speaking, is farcical. Anyone who has studied medicine, whether holistic or western, knows this. Our bodies do things that make no sense for survival, like going into shock from injury, or going into anaphylaxis from an allergy attack. People who think humans are done developing and that we are all that we are ever going to be simply baffle me.

    The human body is still evolving and it's plainly obvious. We are organisms that have had millions of years to gradually adapt to a variety of environments the best we can, but there is still a lot to be desired. It's the whole reason why we need medicine in the first place.

    Perfection is a subjective notion, and I am not saying I don't endorse it. If you believe in determinism, then you know that everything happens for a reason, and believing that can bring a certain harmony to your life. But in terms of thinking of ourselves as perfect beings... I don't know... that somehow doesn't seem very humble or practical.

  10. #40
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    Re: Did God Create Perfection?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    How? How can something limited to creating perfection by its own constrictions create imperfection? A perfect will is by definition perfect, therefore without flaws. How can it will something it cannot do?
    The issue needs to be looked at from multiple levels. While individual peices may not be individually "perfect" the lack of indiviodual perfection could be, in theory, a factor in creating a perfect system where the imperfect peices work together creating a perfect, synergistic whole.

    For example, using an admittedly weak analogy just to get the point that sometimes imperfections can be beneficial, Imagine a manufacturing company that could create a perfect product that would never break down through wear and tear. If this company wanted to create the best system for maximizing profits, creating a "perfect" product that never broke down would not be the best approach because the product would onley be purchased once and there would never be a need to re-purchase said product. There would be an initial influx of sales, but they would eventually decrease to a point approaching zero because the product would be passed on over and over agian to successive generations.

    But if they chose to not make the product perfect, and instead choose to add imperfections ot the product, they can maximize the profitability of the product.

    In truth, the logical debate here really does depend on the goals of the perfect being designing the system. If the gols are something where perfect parts are a detriment ot the system, then the system itself woulfd be imperfect if all of the parts were perfect. But if the perfect system requires imperfect parts, then the perfect action would be to design those parts with imperfections.

    Your limitation of saying that a perfect being cannot create imperfection is a false one. The actual limitation that would exist is the following:

    A perfect being cannot create imperfection unless it is done willfully by that being to achieve it's goals.

    In essense, a perfect being could not accidentally create imperfection, but it could create imperfection on purpose.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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