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Thread: Declaration of Independence question

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    Declaration of Independence question

    Would the declaration of independence have been just as valuable if the founders had simple wrote to the king "**** you guys, we want our own country" (in the popular dialect of the time of course) and left out the justification brought about by the idea of natural rights? Would the revolutionary war and the founding of the country been as justified?
    Last edited by tacomancer; 09-25-10 at 06:01 PM.

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    Re: Declaration of Independence question

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Would the declaration of independence have been just as valuable if the founders had simple wrote to the king "**** you guys, we want our own country" and left out the justification brought about by the idea of natural rights?
    I think it would of been pretty "action hero" cool but not as eloquent.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Declaration of Independence question

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I think it would of been pretty "action hero" cool but not as eloquent.
    Yes, it would be certainly less eloquent. But would the revolutionary war been as justified? (added it to the OP to clarify my question)

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    Re: Declaration of Independence question

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Yes, it would be certainly less eloquent. But would the revolutionary war been as justified? (added it to the OP to clarify my question)
    Probably. Take out the flowery language and the reasons for revolution were still very much there. Try it this way, take out the list of why the King sucks and is there justification for the war? The justification lies in the right to self governor and of the atrocities the King has committed.
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    Re: Declaration of Independence question

    To the people that supported the Revolutionary War, probably.

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    Re: Declaration of Independence question

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Probably. Take out the flowery language and the reasons for revolution were still very much there. Try it this way, take out the list of why the King sucks and is there justification for the war? The justification lies in the right to self governor and of the atrocities the King has committed.
    I am of the same opinion. People take what they want and only society exists to oppose them. The interplay between those two forces is what creates our idea of rights. The people were ready for change and they had enough force to win. I don't think the philosophizing had much effect on it.

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    Re: Declaration of Independence question

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Yes, it would be certainly less eloquent. But would the revolutionary war been as justified? (added it to the OP to clarify my question)
    War can be justified for practically any reason.
    That doesn't mean, I always agree with it.

    Depends on each individual's moral values.
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    Re: Declaration of Independence question

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Would the declaration of independence have been just as valuable if the founders had simple wrote to the king "**** you guys, we want our own country" (in the popular dialect of the time of course) and left out the justification brought about by the idea of natural rights?
    The Declaration of Independence was based largely on the Scottish one (allegedly - it was the only one existing beforehand, except the Dutch). Both written to escape the Crown. My guess, especially considering how many key signatories were Scottish, is that they would have recalled the key elements when creating the second Declaration of Independence from the same Crown and that it would have to have been a lot more detailed than you suggest.

    No need to thank us Scots for setting the precedent for you

    So to answer your question, it was a legal document and therefore would have to have been a bit more detailed than ' F-U'. A document like that wouldn't have been a very solid base, not to mention it probably wouldn't have been recognised by other countries around the world.
    Last edited by expandmymind; 09-25-10 at 06:11 PM.

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    Re: Declaration of Independence question

    We started the Revolution and won because we were powerful enough to do it; power comes from the barrel of a gun. Justification only matters after the fact.

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    Re: Declaration of Independence question

    We started the Revolution and won because we were powerful enough to do it; power comes from the barrel of a gun. Justification only matters after the fact.
    I fully agree, but the after the fact part is important. The U.S. has managed to avoid coups and power struggles primarily because belief in democratic tradition is very strong. Symbols have can have enormous influence even if they are essentially toothless by themselves.

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