View Poll Results: Does communism cause most of the population to live in poverty?

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Thread: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

  1. #71
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    How do you know that? Perhaps human nature has been preverted by the systems that people live in. Genorsity is a way of life. Most people are very giving and free about it. I find humanity to be very caring and sharing. When you live or grow up in a hoarding material society how else will you act. People learn by years of experience to take what they can get for themselves and piss on the rest. Is it the systems that have altered human nature? Are people driven by greed as the US system would have them?
    It's not necessarily greed that drives those in a capitalist society. It's human nature to survive and then succeed. Being ambitious, working hard for what you want and getting it is not greed. All that being said, it is in our nature as humans to strive for status, for lack of a better word. A couple of hundred thousand years of evolution has done that to us. Further, we're a social species and need leadership, which means someone has to be a leader. They don't have to have ultimate authority, but there needs to be someone people recognize as their leader. The competition to rise up is not as well appreciated or rewarded in a communist country as it is in a capitalist democracy.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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  2. #72
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    In a Communist society the company does not need the money of the blood sucking leach called a stockholder. The coampanies grow as the money that is profit is put toward expansion. There is no bloodsucker to take even .63 away for the worker that earned that money. You want to justify this because it is only .63. If you multiply that by all the shareholders and also take the saleries paid to CEO's and higher level employees it comes down to stealing from the worker.

    Consider this I will use baseball which you may better understand than I .The worker (the player) earns more than the manager. The combined incomes of the players and the coaches and the manager in most cases is higher than the income of the owner. How come there is still baseball?
    Then why do all countries that have tried state controlled industry end up going back to capitalism? Even China, originally the purist of the Communist countries ideologically is going that route now. Why is that?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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  3. #73
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You can steal something you were never entitled to, a worker who agreed to work for a specific price, is not being exploited.

    Most share holders are institutional, like mutual funds, charities etc.
    They are mostly invested in by the little guys, aka workers.



    Because that is what they all agreed to, it doesn't make it right or wrong.
    Just because they do this in baseball doesn't mean they should do it everywhere else.

    Workers have very little risk, while owners and shareholders have high amounts of risk.
    They get paid accordingly.
    If the business is owned by the employees and the state there is no need for shareholders and that money goes to the employees and the business. It is not a drain on the resources having to pay the stok holder. Am I supposed to feel differently that most shareholders are little guys? That doesn't really matter. They would not be needed.

    In a capitalist society you have to take the wages offered to have a job. That is the way that works. Yes even if you agree to the wage you are still being raped because more money than you make goes into the paychecks of those that own shares. Just because something is doesn't make it right or desired.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It's not necessarily greed that drives those in a capitalist society. It's human nature to survive and then succeed. Being ambitious, working hard for what you want and getting it is not greed. All that being said, it is in our nature as humans to strive for status, for lack of a better word. A couple of hundred thousand years of evolution has done that to us. Further, we're a social species and need leadership, which means someone has to be a leader. They don't have to have ultimate authority, but there needs to be someone people recognize as their leader. The competition to rise up is not as well appreciated or rewarded in a communist country as it is in a capitalist democracy.
    In a company that is owned by the workers there is a leader. That is his job and he or she is paid for doing that. They are not given bonuses that no one else receives. If a comapny does well all the people do better not just the one. Striving to better is a great thing. Greed comes in when you make more money in one year than you can spend in a lifteime and still want more. It is when you start trading jobs for profit to line your pockets. It has nothing to do with making a living. That is one thing. Greed is what is killing your economy right now.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Then why do all countries that have tried state controlled industry end up going back to capitalism? Even China, originally the purist of the Communist countries ideologically is going that route now. Why is that?
    The state still own any companies. These countries were never set up to work in a purely Communist economy. There was always an upper class. That is why these nations were never fuctional as so called Communist nations. They have never actually been Communist. They are a perversion of that. Stalinism and Maoism are different from true Communism. They were control by iron fisted leaders who were dictators. That is why the problems occured. The capitalim that they participate in is limited and many businesses are owned by the state and the workers. Fewer by the workers themselves. In a purely Communist situation the workers own the lions share.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    This is what I think. In pure communism everyone would live at the same income level, that being fairly low but not poverty stricken. In a pure capitalist society you would have the "haves and have nots" with the poverty gap being immense. It depends on how you define poverty as well.
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    This is what I think. In pure communism everyone would live at the same income level, that being fairly low but not poverty stricken.
    See, that's not guaranteed though, in a resource rich country with a small population (possible Australia ) there'd be enough for everyone, but the biggest problem with communism is it's inflexible, if there was a bad drought followed by a locust plague, that would stuff up a communist system more than a capitalist one.
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  8. #78
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    If the business is owned by the employees and the state there is no need for shareholders and that money goes to the employees and the business. It is not a drain on the resources having to pay the stok holder. Am I supposed to feel differently that most shareholders are little guys? That doesn't really matter. They would not be needed.
    That's all cute in theory but the state can not manage the needs of the people.
    Never have been, won't ever be.

    For employees to successfully run a business, they are going to have to understand the many concepts about what makes a business work.
    It's not like some guy just woke up one day and said "I'll make a business" and "poof" he was generating income.

    What will the employees (owners) do, when in the first 2 years, the business generates no positive income?
    You do know that most businesses have a time period where they generate no positive income, don't you?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    In a capitalist society you have to take the wages offered to have a job. That is the way that works. Yes even if you agree to the wage you are still being raped because more money than you make goes into the paychecks of those that own shares. Just because something is doesn't make it right or desired.
    That's ridiculous.
    The employee is not risking money to be employed, not having risk in illiquid capital investment like machinery and buildings.

    The employee holds a very tiny risk, that he or she may not get that weeks paycheck but does not hold the risk that, they may be financially ruined, because of poor sales.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    This is what I think. In pure communism everyone would live at the same income level, that being fairly low but not poverty stricken. In a pure capitalist society you would have the "haves and have nots" with the poverty gap being immense. It depends on how you define poverty as well.
    Why do you think the income would be low. It could be low as there would be no house payments and no utilities and the taxes would be taken before you ever saw any money.There would be no medical expenses or school costs. If you took all of that out of the mix how much would you need to make?
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    See, that's not guaranteed though, in a resource rich country with a small population (possible Australia ) there'd be enough for everyone, but the biggest problem with communism is it's inflexible, if there was a bad drought followed by a locust plague, that would stuff up a communist system more than a capitalist one.
    Why would that happen? I don't believe that it would be so.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

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