View Poll Results: Does communism cause most of the population to live in poverty?

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Thread: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

  1. #31
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    This poll is faulty. Communism at a state level has never been tried.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #32
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Thing is, niether Cuba, and especially North Korea, were never truly Communist, in fact North Korea is so far removed from Communism it's scary.
    In fact they are all pretty much failures at meeting the very basic requirements to be Communist.

    Cuba and North are neither run by the worker but instead are dictatorships of the few. Have classes and do trade with the west. That's pretty much fail in the book of Marx.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #33
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    This poll is faulty. Communism at a state level has never been tried.
    Israel was Marxist Communist in her earlier days and I think it worked wonders for them. I've not read much about it but what I have read has been positive. A Communist country that wasn't constantly in 'battle' with the West (Capitalism).

    Personally I think it could work. But like I mentioned in my last post it has never really had the chance to flourish anywhere.
    Last edited by expandmymind; 09-25-10 at 05:39 PM.

  4. #34
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Communism can be organized under an authoritarian ruler, same for capitalism.
    How? That doesn't make sense. Communism is a dictatorship of the worker, which could be authoritarian, cannot be one ruler. Communism cannot be Communism is the ruling class is not the worker. Totalitarian regimes can have some aspects of Communism, but just because you have some of the economic principles doesn't make you Communism. Even the USSR had economic classes.

    An actual Communism country (short of the anarchy of Marx) would have the decisions made by a democracy of the worker where everyone is of the same economic classes. That has never been attempted at a state level. This poll is fail as it effectively utilizes the definition of Communism as anything a self proclaimed Communist has done. Which transitive logic dictates the United States is Communist.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  5. #35
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Those things exist in human society regardless of what system of government you choose.

    Sure some countries have it less then others.

    There's A LOT of poverty in America, a lot of alcoholism.

    Less poverty in Canada i'd say, but a decent amount of alcoholism given our population size. Especially in Rural Areas, and unfortunately in Native Reserves.

    I'm not pro communist or pro capitalist. I believe a balance in the middle is the only solution. It's been proven free enterprise on its own cannot solve every problem. And government on it's own can be too wasteful. A mixed economy seems to be a better outcome for most people.
    I think if you compared American poverty to Chinese, Cuban, North Korean, or Vietnamese poverty, you'd see quite a difference.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  6. #36
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    This poll is faulty. Communism at a state level has never been tried.
    That isn't true, it is an abrupt failure because it fails to take into account the behaviors of the people.

    The poor tend to be virulent consumers, no matter the economic structure they live in.
    I have seen educationally ignorant poor people conceive elaborate schemes to deprive, other poor people of goods, solely because of their irrational consumptive behavior.

    Communism necessitates an authoritarian structure because of this.
    It is a fairy tale pipe dream.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by expandmymind View Post
    Israel was Marxist Communist in their earlier days and I think it worked wonders for them.
    Uh no. The Kibbituz system which did wonders for Israel was just a piece of their economy. There was strong economic social classes in Israel (as there are today). Furthermore, it was hardly a democracy of th worker. I'm not arguing that they didn't practice a kind of communal economic production method, but that alone does not make them Communism when they had other aspects to their economy.

    Personally I think it could work. But like I mentioned in my last post it has never really had the chance to flourish anywhere.
    Eh. Humans are too greedy for it to work.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  8. #38
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    How? That doesn't make sense. Communism is a dictatorship of the worker, which could be authoritarian, cannot be one ruler. Communism cannot be Communism is the ruling class is not the worker. Totalitarian regimes can have some aspects of Communism, but just because you have some of the economic principles doesn't make you Communism. Even the USSR had economic classes.

    An actual Communism country (short of the anarchy of Marx) would have the decisions made by a democracy of the worker where everyone is of the same economic classes. That has never been attempted at a state level. This poll is fail as it effectively utilizes the definition of Communism as anything a self proclaimed Communist has done. Which transitive logic dictates the United States is Communist.
    The communal ownership of communism has to have an authoritarian ruler to enforce the communal structure.
    Large groups of people will not respect the communal relationship, absent of force.

    Democracies are authoritarian.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  9. #39
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That isn't true, it is an abrupt failure because it fails to take into account the behaviors of the people.
    When did it ever even start off properly? Lenin was probably the closest, but he never gave the power to the masses. Basically, Lenin hijacked the ideas of a utopian workers' paradise and retained power himself and kept parts of the class structure alive. That's not Communism. I don't disagree Communism won't work in humans, but it's never been tried in the fashion described by Marx. All too often it reverts to the utterly worthless definition of anything so called Communists have tried.

    The communal ownership of communism has to have an authoritarian ruler to enforce the communal structure.
    Large groups of people will not respect the communal relationship, absent of force.
    But that alone does not equate to Communism. You cannot have a single or a few rulers in Communism. That is totally against the writings of Marx much less the revolution by the worker. There are a few basic points a country must have to be Communism. And no country has even hit any of them aside from no exports to the West.

    Democracies are authoritarian.
    They can be.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 09-25-10 at 05:44 PM.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  10. #40
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    When did it ever even start off properly? Lenin was probably the closest, but he never gave the power to the masses. Basically, Lenin hijacked the ideas of a utopian workers' paradise and retained power himself and kept parts of the class structure alive. That's not Communism. I don't disagree Communism won't work in humans, but it's never been tried in the fashion described by Marx. All too often it reverts to the utterly worthless definition of anything so called Communists have tried.
    Why did he do it?
    Because he couldn't trust his own "equals."
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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