View Poll Results: Does communism cause most of the population to live in poverty?

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Thread: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

  1. #211
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Why do you make polls that require people to answer the question favourably to your own view?

    If you want actual discussion on the pros and cons of socialism and communism, you're certainly going about this the wrong way.

    If you want to make an idiotic and pointless statement about your lack of willingness to hear debate on the subject, then you're certainly going about this the right way.
    What's the point of working in a communist society?

    How do you allocate resources without a price system (or how do you deal with scarcity)?

    How do you deal with people who don't want to work in your economic system (human nature problem)?

    How do you deal with the diamond-water paradox which is a knockdown of the labor theory of value which is necessary for the theory of surplus value?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Why do you make polls that require people to answer the question favourably to your own view?

    If you want actual discussion on the pros and cons of socialism and communism, you're certainly going about this the wrong way.

    If you want to make an idiotic and pointless statement about your lack of willingness to hear debate on the subject, then you're certainly going about this the right way.
    What is the point of debating pros and cons of communism, when you can't even explain how we are going to allocate jobs in a communist society?

  3. #213
    Ivan The Terrible > All
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    The only problem I see with this poll is the fact that the poll creator did not offer a choice for the pro-communist. I would have been interested in seeing how many people still held a favorable view of the failed system.
    "Miss quote? It's an outright fabrication!" Myself in response to Iriemon's post.

  4. #214
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan The Terrible View Post
    The only problem I see with this poll is the fact that the poll creator did not offer a choice for the pro-communist. I would have been interested in seeing how many people still held a favorable view of the failed system.
    I'm for any system that will take care of everybody, not just the schemers, liars and cheaters, it's the civilized thing to do. Learning how to share is the only way civilization will survive.

    "Government and cooperation are the laws of life. Anarchy and competition are the laws of death." John Ruskin

    ricksfolly

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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez
    How do you deal with the diamond-water paradox which is a knockdown of the labor theory of value which is necessary for the theory of surplus value?
    LOL you never know what you're talking about when it comes to economics, do you? This isn't even an argument against the LTV. It's like saying "I could spend $1,000,000 on this worthless rock and that disproves the LTV because I paid more than the value inherent in it." It's not an argument at all because you're completely missing the point of the LTV.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  6. #216
    Ivan The Terrible > All
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    I'm for any system that will take care of everybody, not just the schemers, liars and cheaters, it's the civilized thing to do. Learning how to share is the only way civilization will survive.

    "Government and cooperation are the laws of life. Anarchy and competition are the laws of death." John Ruskin

    ricksfolly
    What does "take care of everybody" mean? At the expense of what and whom? Is this your way of saying that you, in fact, advocate communism, a proven failed system?
    "Miss quote? It's an outright fabrication!" Myself in response to Iriemon's post.

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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan The Terrible View Post
    What does "take care of everybody" mean? At the expense of what and whom? Is this your way of saying that you, in fact, advocate communism, a proven failed system?
    A) Communism has never been actually implemented, or you'd be living in a communist society now.
    B) It would be at nobody's expense.

  8. #218
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    If the quality is so bad, then it would be an easy task for you to refute my statement. But the fact is, I have used this argument against many communists, and not a single one has been able to explain how they would allocate jobs in a communist system where everyone earns depending on what they need and not what they produce. The best answer I have heard so far is job-sharing, which is extremly inefficient and won't work at all for highly qualified jobs.

    Another typical answer is "But there is not going to be any wages", however in reality there has to be some form of rationing. If not, then there will be a fight over the resources because some people are going to take more than they need. And if some people take more than they need, then the rest will also take more.

    I don't really think you are concerned about the quality, but more that you lack an answer.
    The fact is communism won't work because it attempts to defy human nature. If we were all like Jesus, it might work....but mankind has enough greed and selfishness to defeat the perfect utopia. Marx forgot to add the disclaimer, "In a perfect world....".
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The fact is communism won't work because it attempts to defy human nature. If we were all like Jesus, it might work....but mankind has enough greed and selfishness to defeat the perfect utopia. Marx forgot to add the disclaimer, "In a perfect world....".
    It would require a societal evolution.

  10. #220
    Ivan The Terrible > All
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    SE102,

    A) Communism has never been actually implemented,
    Of course it has. Do not pretend that vas people across the globe have not attempted to implement the Marxist fantasy because they have ended in failure.

    It would be at nobody's expense.
    Tell that to the victims of Mao's "Great Leap Forward".

    American,

    but mankind has enough greed and selfishness to defeat the perfect utopia.
    I am so sick of descent Constitutional Americans making excuses for this failed theory! Saying something along the lines of, "Oh if we just loved each other more etc, etc, etc..." This is not the reason communism fails. Communism fails because it refuses to deal with economic reality.
    "Miss quote? It's an outright fabrication!" Myself in response to Iriemon's post.

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