View Poll Results: Does communism cause most of the population to live in poverty?

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Thread: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

  1. #141
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    This is true. Moral hierarchies create a temporary static system .. meaning they will fail if they are based on a moral hierarchy because morals are relative to time and place and more often then not have exceptions to the rule. I prefer an adaptation over static morality and it makes more sense anyhow because morality consequences are un-measurable using science in any absolute way.
    MAN I wish I woulda said that.

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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Communism on paper is a phenomenal form of government. However, like so many things it's led by human beings and thus becomes something that will never work. A perfect society requires perfect leaders and, here on earth, that doesn't exist.

  3. #143
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Those things exist in human society regardless of what system of government you choose.

    Sure some countries have it less then others.

    There's A LOT of poverty in America, a lot of alcoholism.

    Less poverty in Canada i'd say, but a decent amount of alcoholism given our population size. Especially in Rural Areas, and unfortunately in Native Reserves.

    I'm not pro communist or pro capitalist. I believe a balance in the middle is the only solution. It's been proven free enterprise on its own cannot solve every problem. And government on it's own can be too wasteful. A mixed economy seems to be a better outcome for most people.
    The basics of Communism/Marxism/Socialism all have one thing in common.

    These systems all kill incentive and it leads to a lower standard of living for all but the very few at the very top of the power structure that takes form the many and keeps the best for themselves.

    Our form of Capitalism makes is possible for anyone who applies themselves to better their standard of living unless they are a minority that has fallen into the trap of believing they have been held back so much that they need to take what they can from hand outs because they can never do any better because they won't be allowed to by the system and some people.

    This was why Welfare was created in the first place, because those who fought so hard to stop the civil rights movement saw that when President Eisenhower sent in Federal Troops to enforce the law the writing was on the wall, welfare was a way to keep minorities down wile all the time saying we are trying to help you trust me.

    Yes there are drunks in every Country in the world where alcohol is available but it's not the systems that necessarily causes alcoholism.

    It's personal choice to turn to the bottle to deal with life's problems that drives people to it, that and a poor support structure caused in some cases by the same welfare system that contributes to broken one parent families.

    Obama, Pelosi, Reid are the Trifecta of Doom fore our kind of economy and Communism/Marxism/Socialism is the Triad of Disaster for any Nation and that is where the Trifecta is pushing us with their policies.
    Last edited by Councilman; 10-03-10 at 11:54 AM.

  4. #144
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Those things exist in human society regardless of what system of government you choose.

    Sure some countries have it less then others.

    There's A LOT of poverty in America, a lot of alcoholism.

    Less poverty in Canada i'd say, but a decent amount of alcoholism given our population size. Especially in Rural Areas, and unfortunately in Native Reserves.

    I'm not pro communist or pro capitalist. I believe a balance in the middle is the only solution. It's been proven free enterprise on its own cannot solve every problem. And government on it's own can be too wasteful. A mixed economy seems to be a better outcome for most people.
    Good post.
    The poll is obviously fixed and controlled.
    Balance is the key, and we need more socialism to restore a good balance.

  5. #145
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Of course both conservatives and liberals have the right to express themselves as to : why welfare??.

    I, for one do not accept the conservative reasoning.
    Its man's intolerance, hatred, fear that creates the need for this welfare.
    A better people will do away with the need of welfare.

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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    The basics of Communism/Marxism/Socialism all have one thing in common.

    These systems all kill incentive and it leads to a lower standard of living for all but the very few at the very top of the power structure that takes form the many and keeps the best for themselves.

    Our form of Capitalism makes is possible for anyone who applies themselves to better their standard of living unless they are a minority that has fallen into the trap of believing they have been held back so much that they need to take what they can from hand outs because they can never do any better because they won't be allowed to by the system and some people.

    This was why Welfare was created in the first place, because those who fought so hard to stop the civil rights movement saw that when President Eisenhower sent in Federal Troops to enforce the law the writing was on the wall, welfare was a way to keep minorities down wile all the time saying we are trying to help you trust me.

    Yes there are drunks in every Country in the world where alcohol is available but it's not the systems that necessarily causes alcoholism.

    It's personal choice to turn to the bottle to deal with life's problems that drives people to it, that and a poor support structure caused in some cases by the same welfare system that contributes to broken one parent families.

    Obama, Pelosi, Reid are the Trifecta of Doom fore our kind of economy and Communism/Marxism/Socialism is the Triad of Disaster for any Nation and that is where the Trifecta is pushing us with their policies.
    Its repression that causes alcoholism, among other things.
    I do not think that any system can exist, by itself , at least today, without repression.

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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    The basics of Communism/Marxism/Socialism all have one thing in common.

    These systems all kill incentive and it leads to a lower standard of living for all but the very few at the very top of the power structure that takes form the many and keeps the best for themselves.

    Our form of Capitalism makes is possible for anyone who applies themselves to better their standard of living unless they are a minority that has fallen into the trap of believing they have been held back so much that they need to take what they can from hand outs because they can never do any better because they won't be allowed to by the system and some people.

    This was why Welfare was created in the first place, because those who fought so hard to stop the civil rights movement saw that when President Eisenhower sent in Federal Troops to enforce the law the writing was on the wall, welfare was a way to keep minorities down wile all the time saying we are trying to help you trust me.

    Yes there are drunks in every Country in the world where alcohol is available but it's not the systems that necessarily causes alcoholism.

    It's personal choice to turn to the bottle to deal with life's problems that drives people to it, that and a poor support structure caused in some cases by the same welfare system that contributes to broken one parent families.

    Obama, Pelosi, Reid are the Trifecta of Doom fore our kind of economy and Communism/Marxism/Socialism is the Triad of Disaster for any Nation and that is where the Trifecta is pushing us with their policies.
    I disagree with your premise. There are some people who can rise to the top within our system. But please don't tell me that they can do it without the others below them who are providing the labor, products, etc. If it were left up to many companies there concern would be only the bottom line, profit. Safety regulations, salaries, working conditions, etc. would be geared accordingly. Large corporations have a solid foothold on Washington. The present debate on taxes is one example. While companies are busy outsourcing jobs, and, even in this economy, making record profits--they are complaining about increasing the tax rates.The Heritage Foundation and the Chamber of Commerce reports that the United States has the second largest highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. The problem is that this statistic is disingenuous. The reason is that the rate is an overview that does not include those exemptions that have been disallowed all the loopholes, shelters, and special tax breaks. Once these are considered these rates are among the lowest in the world as a share of GDP.

    When you suggest that "Our form of Capitalism makes is possible for anyone who applies themselves to better their standard of living unless they are a minority that has fallen into the trap of believing they have been held back so much that they need to take what they can from hand outs because they can never do any better because they won't be allowed to by the system and some people" are you suggesting that the Blacks were not discriminated against. And please, don't suggest that such hatred is not still raising it's ugly head in our society. What would have been your solution. Sit back and wait for people to have their own revelation that they needed to change their schools, hospitals, workplaces, social and military institutions. We had slavery in the name of capitalism. And Abraham Lincoln said that if slavery would have saved the Union he would have maintained the status quo.

    And what about the Native Americans. We stole their lands from them. Even after the Supreme Court had ruled, President Jackson sent the military in to remove them and the Trail of Tears was the result. It was based on economic expansion and hatred of their race. And they still do not have justice.

    I believe in this country. With all it's problems it's so much better than all the rest. It provides freedoms that other countries do not have. We have made mistakes and I do not believe that we can rest upon our economic system as is. We have to view it honestly and do better for our people in the future.

  8. #148
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by snbl11225 View Post
    I disagree with your premise. There are some people who can rise to the top within our system. But please don't tell me that they can do it without the others below them who are providing the labor, products, etc.
    An act that they volunteer to participate in.

    If it were left up to many companies there concern would be only the bottom line, profit. Safety regulations, salaries, working conditions, etc. would be geared accordingly. Large corporations have a solid foothold on Washington. The present debate on taxes is one example. While companies are busy outsourcing jobs, and, even in this economy, making record profits--they are complaining about increasing the tax rates.The Heritage Foundation and the Chamber of Commerce reports that the United States has the second largest highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world. The problem is that this statistic is disingenuous. The reason is that the rate is an overview that does not include those exemptions that have been disallowed all the loopholes, shelters, and special tax breaks. Once these are considered these rates are among the lowest in the world as a share of GDP.
    Do you know how competition works? Why would someone work for a company that pays $10 per hour if they can get $15 per hour anywhere? Why would someone work for a place that makes them work 15 hours a day if they could work somewhere else and get only 8 hours of work a day? People look for the greatest absolute advantage when looking for a job. This ensures that BOTH parties benefit by the transaction.

    When you suggest that "Our form of Capitalism makes is possible for anyone who applies themselves to better their standard of living unless they are a minority that has fallen into the trap of believing they have been held back so much that they need to take what they can from hand outs because they can never do any better because they won't be allowed to by the system and some people" are you suggesting that the Blacks were not discriminated against. And please, don't suggest that such hatred is not still raising it's ugly head in our society. What would have been your solution. Sit back and wait for people to have their own revelation that they needed to change their schools, hospitals, workplaces, social and military institutions. We had slavery in the name of capitalism. And Abraham Lincoln said that if slavery would have saved the Union he would have maintained the status quo.
    Slavery and racism only existed because of state sponsorship. They would have been extinguished long ago except for Jim Crow and other problems. Martin Luther King Jr. was only needed to change our consciousness. The Civil Rights Act was unnecessary and has created many problems such as companies deliberately hiring minorities over more qualified whites just to avoid a lawsuits by the EEOC.

    And what about the Native Americans. We stole their lands from them. Even after the Supreme Court had ruled, President Jackson sent the military in to remove them and the Trail of Tears was the result. It was based on economic expansion and hatred of their race. And they still do not have justice.
    That has nothing to do with capitalism.

    I believe in this country. With all it's problems it's so much better than all the rest. It provides freedoms that other countries do not have. We have made mistakes and I do not believe that we can rest upon our economic system as is. We have to view it honestly and do better for our people in the future.
    Before you judge the economic system, know the difference between economics and government action, and then actually understand the economic system that is capitalism because you have no grasp over it.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    In reality a communist society is only as poor as the economy is badly managed. Since when could cubans or russians manage an economy properly to the extent of control required by communism?

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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    In reality a communist society is only as poor as the economy is badly managed. Since when could cubans or russians manage an economy properly to the extent of control required by communism?
    When has any government managed an economy well with such a top-heavy apparatus?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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