View Poll Results: Does communism cause most of the population to live in poverty?

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Thread: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

  1. #121
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    You're using anecdotal "evidence", which fails. The simple truth lies in per-capita GDP and national mean wages. If you compare Americans below the poverty line and Europeans below the poverty line, it's not even close.

    Almost half of all Americans below the poverty line own outright the houses they live in. 97% own color televisions. Two-thirds have cable. Hell, even one-third have cell phones.

    Kinda makes all those people in the bread lines look pretty frickin' stupid, huh...
    Actually no it makes those that are in poverty watching colour TV seem pretty stupid. Maybe if they got off their dead lazy capitalist asses they may be able to get a job. It makes Americans seem pretty stupid on a whole if they really think the ownership of a colour TV as important. Where do you see bread lines. Is that what the economy in America has brought to your neighborhood. Maybe I can do a collection in St Petersburg and send you some money to feed those poor dumb bastards. Maybe they can get snacks when they watch TV. There are no bread lines here. There may have been in the past. But that is corrected. Maybe you would like to study up on Russia and see what life is like. I know you are talking about Russia as you actually think it is Communist.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I never said that.

    I said that all states must use force or the threat of force in order to maintain the conditions of their rule. All states are by their very nature authoritarian.
    Yes so in order for any communist rule to take place, if would have to put some of the working class to the sword.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    And I already responded to this. Socio-economic systems are not something brought about through rational decision or personal preference, but rather through the development of history. Your belief that people should be able to "choose" capitalism or communism is a fantasy that will never have any basis in reality because it is contrary to how the real world works.

    You could go around believing that people should be able to choose whether or not they can breathe underwater and it will have no relevance to anything because it's a completely unrealistic and nonsensical belief.
    Breathing underwater ≠ economic pluralism.
    That should be apparent as one is currently impossible, while the other has already existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Examples of "communes and less regulated capitalist groups" are irrelevant because we are talking about socio-economic systems on a world scale, not partially isolated communes which are really small groups of people that generally operate within the laws of the system which their commune is supposed to be outside of.

    Isolated and small instances like this are irrelevant, regardless of whether we're referring to capitalist or non-capitalist communes.
    But they aren't irrelevant, the many 50 states have varying degrees of regulation.
    Some with very little, others with a lot.
    So we know at least part of it is true.

    Communes quite frequently operate outside the laws of the nation they were created in.
    Labor laws and minimum wage regulations are not always followed by the communes.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 09-29-10 at 04:47 AM.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    This is false, the bolsheviks never really followed a liberal democratic model, liberal democratic communist upheaval was suppressed by them.
    The Petrograd Soviet was a democratically elected political group, that essentially captured the Soviet Republic, from the other political parties.

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    What? You cant make proper institutions to treat homelessness? thats some low goalkeeping there.
    Treating mental illness is incredibly difficult.
    These people tend to phase in and out of stability, even with counseling and medication.
    There are many free avenues available for people with mental disorders, halfway homes and career counseling but you can't make them do it.

    The other less than nice option, is to institutionalize them.
    You should read about that.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0
    Maybe you would like to study up on Russia and see what life is like.
    I already know about modern-day Russia. More billionaires than America. This is partially why I laugh about your cheap shots at wealth disparity since you seem to be defending a country with a worse one than America by leaps and bounds.

    Relax, sweetheart. The days of the Stasi are over. You can talk about the hammer and sickle without fear of your cousin sending you to the gulag.

    I know you are talking about Russia as you actually think it is Communist.
    If you had read my first post, which you clearly haven't, you would see me say that communism has never existed in its most pure form. Soviet Russia operated by command-style totalitarianism, as communism is essentially about a half step from anarchy because communism has no hierarchy of rule. The old Soviet Union was probably the closest thing you could get to a textbook definition of socialism. Socialism is, in and of itself, hyper-authoritarian where people are prevented from accumulating wealth outside the collective. It's a marathon of status quo that ultimately prevents expansion and growth.

    This is also why you lost the Cold War.

    Game over - insert quarter and play again. This is pretty damn fun.

  5. #125
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    If you had read my first post, which you clearly haven't, you would see me say that communism has never existed in its most pure form. Soviet Russia operated by command-style totalitarianism, as communism is essentially about a half step from anarchy because communism has no hierarchy of rule. The old Soviet Union was probably the closest thing you could get to a textbook definition of socialism.
    There is no 'textbook' definition of socialism, because the term is used to describe many models of government, economics, and political theory--utopian vs. scientific.
    State-Directed or Decentralized economy. Market socialism, Libertarian socialism, social anarchism. Social democracy, democratic socialism...

    The problem with far-right pundits with their anti-Obama talking points is that they give their audience an a limited and false definition to foster fear and ignorance about socialism. Glenn Beck says he learned about the evils of progressives and socialists by reading books at the public library. Go figure.

    Socialism is, in and of itself, hyper-authoritarian where people are prevented from accumulating wealth outside the collective. It's a marathon of status quo that ultimately prevents expansion and growth.
    Um... China?

    Vietnam, high-tech industry and third-largest oil producer in Southeast Asia.

    Of course, both have added free market elements as part of their planned economy.

    The point is, Gipper, it all depends on what brand of socialism you're talking about.

  6. #126
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    I'm talking garden variety, theory-into-practice socialism. It's pretty much the only kind that exists on a large scale. I'm not talking utopian or pseudo-socialist beliefs, or things that people wish for but can never happen such as democratic socialism or anarcho-syndicalism. All socialism is authoritarian. All socialism requires an oppressive centralized government to rule through fear and intimidation. The only thing that differs from country to country is the wealth distribution, exact levels of corruption, and levels of minimal control at the popular level.

    Nice try on the ad homs though. How unfortunate for you that they're inapplicable here.

  7. #127
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    "Does communism cause most of the population to live in poverty?" - American

    No.

    It causes all but the ruling elites to live in poverty.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  8. #128
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    "Does communism cause most of the population to live in poverty?" - American

    No.

    It causes all but the ruling elites to live in poverty.
    Methinks that constitutes "most", in most dictionaries.

    Unless you’re saying the “ruling elites” are a majority…
    Education.

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  9. #129
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Indeed. Castro recently admitted that Cuban communism doesn't work. North Korea is another shining example.
    It works for every country at first, but then corruption and greed takes over.

    The success of smaller versions, like the Amish and other self contained communities here in the US and Canada, prove that it does work, so let's not give up on it entirely.

    ricksfolly

  10. #130
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    It works for every country at first, but then corruption and greed takes over.
    Greed: all other things being equal, people would rather not work than work.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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