View Poll Results: Does communism cause most of the population to live in poverty?

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Thread: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

  1. #111
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Many homeless have mental problems, and no one is willing to take care of them. Most of the time it's not by choice Harry. Gotta disagree with you there.
    I do understand that end of it but the other solution is institutionalization, which is much worse than homelessness.

    That is why we ended it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  2. #112
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0
    Are you trying to say that the US has no poverty. There is plenty of failure to go around. Your homeless shelters and welfare roles are overflowing. Stop with the were so good and Russia is so bad.
    You're using anecdotal "evidence", which fails. The simple truth lies in per-capita GDP and national mean wages. If you compare Americans below the poverty line and Europeans below the poverty line, it's not even close.

    Almost half of all Americans below the poverty line own outright the houses they live in. 97% own color televisions. Two-thirds have cable. Hell, even one-third have cell phones.

    Kinda makes all those people in the bread lines look pretty frickin' stupid, huh...

  3. #113
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    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    You said I have to make people comply by force
    I never said that.

    I said that all states must use force or the threat of force in order to maintain the conditions of their rule. All states are by their very nature authoritarian.

    which is only true in the sense that I want people to be able to learn to choose for themselves.
    And I already responded to this. Socio-economic systems are not something brought about through rational decision or personal preference, but rather through the development of history. Your belief that people should be able to "choose" capitalism or communism is a fantasy that will never have any basis in reality because it is contrary to how the real world works.

    You could go around believing that people should be able to choose whether or not they can breathe underwater and it will have no relevance to anything because it's a completely unrealistic and nonsensical belief.

    Do I really need to pull up examples of successful communes and less regulated capitalist groups, in the U.S. to show how pluralism can work?
    Examples of "communes and less regulated capitalist groups" are irrelevant because we are talking about socio-economic systems on a world scale, not partially isolated communes which are really small groups of people that generally operate within the laws of the system which their commune is supposed to be outside of.

    Isolated and small instances like this are irrelevant, regardless of whether we're referring to capitalist or non-capitalist communes.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 09-29-10 at 12:39 AM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  4. #114
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Yaaaaay Khayembi is here!

  5. #115
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yes but it did not fulfill the basic ideological tenant it was supposed to, democratic control.
    This is false, the bolsheviks never really followed a liberal democratic model, liberal democratic communist upheaval was suppressed by them.

  6. #116
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I do understand that end of it but the other solution is institutionalization, which is much worse than homelessness.

    That is why we ended it.
    What? You cant make proper institutions to treat homelessness? thats some low goalkeeping there.

  7. #117
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    On paper, no...

    In practice, that's how it worked out.

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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The funny thing here is that the American state was never intended to represent the interests of the people as a whole.

    I just want to say, that during our nations history we have only represented the will of the people as a whole for a few decades now, and we have a completely polarized dual party system responsible most likely for all the vitriolic nastiness consuming our nation to this day. What we have in modern america is an experiment of democracy which is unprecedented and unstable. Given this in context, the most polarised government and people we have ever seen, can we seriously put the governments of other nations down for being conservative in their regards to democratic freedoms? When russia seems to crack down on leftist groups or when Chavez shuts down opposition tv stations for supporting foreign coups against him? (Im not for these things of course but they happen and are of real world considerations that do not easily translate into american domestic politics)
    Last edited by MKULTRABOY; 09-29-10 at 01:49 AM.

  9. #119
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    On paper, no...

    In practice, that's how it worked out.
    the supression of 'democratic' communist movements in russia during revolutionary times?
    Thats what hey teach us in college anyways. I never really liked some of the writers of russian history presented to us in english curriculum.

  10. #120
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102
    I just want to say, that during our nations history we have only represented the will of the people as a whole for a few decades now
    I disagree with this. I don't think the American state has ever represented the interests of "the people as a whole" and it never will. There is no such thing as "the will of the people as a whole," anyways.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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