View Poll Results: Does communism cause most of the population to live in poverty?

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Thread: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

  1. #101
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    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    The Petrograd Soviet was a democratically elected council, they gave the power to the higher members to topple the provisional government, after which the power continued to be concentrated in the hands of the authorities.
    The authorities by definition are those in whom power is concentrated. Be clear.

    Point still stands, it took an act of force to create the government.
    It takes an act of force to overthrow any state and to maintain the conditions of rule of any state. The American Revolution was an act of force to overthrow the British colonial state and impose a new domestic rule on the colonies.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  2. #102
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The authorities by definition are those in whom power is concentrated. Be clear.
    Yes but it did not fulfill the basic ideological tenant it was supposed to, democratic control.


    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    It takes an act of force to overthrow any state and to maintain the conditions of rule of any state. The American Revolution was an act of force to overthrow the British colonial state and impose a new domestic rule on the colonies.
    As such the new state was designed to not be an autocracy and further that it was to be pluralistic.
    So that those who lived there, could chose their style of governance.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #103
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Yes but it did not fulfill the basic ideological tenant it was supposed to, democratic control.
    It certainly did, for a time. Although I'm not sure what point your attempting to make here, as if you're attempting to use the Petrograd Soviet as an example of your silly little assertion above, I've already refuted that nonsense.

    As such the new state was designed to not be an autocracy and further that it was to be pluralistic.
    So that those who lived there, could chose their style of governance.
    And? I could just quote your own post here to "refute" yourself!

    Quote Originally Posted by You
    In order for a[n independent America] to exist, it must be done with force.
    A great many people will resist it, with violence.
    A centralized authority must be established to wrestle that control.
    Of course, they won't return it to the people.
    The funny thing here is that the American state was never intended to represent the interests of the people as a whole.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 09-28-10 at 02:33 AM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  4. #104
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    It certainly did, for a time.
    It truly is unfortunate that it didn't continue, I mean that sincerely.


    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    And? I could just quote your own post here to "refute" yourself!
    You could if the intent was to establish one type of society.
    That my problem with national communism, a great deal of force must be used to make everyone participate in that style of government.

    What I want is for people to chose locally what they want, whether it be communism or totally unregulated capitalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The funny thing here is that the American state was never intended to represent the interests of the people as a whole.
    In the national sense, you're absolutely right and I agree with it.
    The national government shouldn't be uniformly deciding for a diverse people.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 09-28-10 at 02:36 AM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #105
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla
    You could if the intent was to establish one type of society.
    That my problem with national communism, a great deal of force must be used to make everyone participate in that style of government.
    What are you even talking about here? You're really jumping all over the place with your posts to the point where I don't even know what your point is that you're attempting to make or how any of this is supposed to support them.

    What I want is for people to chose locally what they want, whether it be communism or totally unregulated capitalism.
    Of course, and if that was possible then we could all ride our unicorns to work where our jobs would be to play Xbox and eat cheeseburgers all day while still looking like gods/goddesses.

    Unfortunately, that's not how the real world works. History on such a scale isn't created out of rational choice or personal preference.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 09-28-10 at 02:42 AM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  6. #106
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    What are you even talking about here? You're really jumping all over the place with your posts to the point where I don't even know what your point is that you're attempting to make or how any of this is supposed to support them.
    You said I have to make people comply by force, which is only true in the sense that I want people to be able to learn to choose for themselves.

    With the example of the Petrograd Soviet and the establishment of national communism, my choice and the choices of others are decided for me.
    Not agreeable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Of course, and if that was possible then we could all ride our unicorns to work where our jobs would be to play Xbox and eat cheeseburgers all day while still looking like gods/goddesses.

    Unfortunately, that's not how the real world works.
    Do I really need to pull up examples of successful communes and less regulated capitalist groups, in the U.S. to show how pluralism can work?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #107
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Erm, Russia has a **** ton of people in real poverty.
    Nothing compared to here.
    If that is how they are "keeping up", they can keep "winning."

    China owns most of our debt because we borrowed money from them.
    China has abandoned the communist economic model because they realize, that it is a failure.
    Are you trying to say that the US has no poverty. There is plenty of failure to go around. Your homeless shelters and welfare roles are overflowing. Stop with the were so good and Russia is so bad.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by peepnklown View Post
    I want to be clear.
    Do you need me to name of communist country where the leaders vacuum the wealth of the nation from the masses who are poor?
    Yes because you will not be able to. So I am trying to figure out where all these Communist demons are that you speak of.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
    Sophie B. Hawkins

  9. #109
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Are you trying to say that the US has no poverty. There is plenty of failure to go around. Your homeless shelters and welfare roles are overflowing. Stop with the were so good and Russia is so bad.
    The amount of homeless people in the U.S. is negligible, many of them are homeless by choice.

    Welfare, ha, I know people on welfare with multiple cars, multiple advanced television sets and disposable income.
    Not even close to not being able to feed oneself.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #110
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    Re: Does communism force a portion of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The amount of homeless people in the U.S. is negligible, many of them are homeless by choice.
    Many homeless have mental problems, and no one is willing to take care of them. Most of the time it's not by choice Harry. Gotta disagree with you there.

    United States: According to HUD's July 2008 3rd Homeless Assessment Report to Congress, in a single night in January 2007, single point analysis reported to HUD showed there were 671,888 sheltered and unsheltered homeless persons nationwide in the United States. Also, HUD reported the number of chronically homeless people (those with repeated episodes or who have been homeless for long periods, 2007 data) as 123,833. 82% of the homeless are not chronically homeless, and 18% are (6% Chronically Homeless Sheltered, 12% Chronically Homeless Unsheltered). Their Estimate of Sheltered Homeless Persons during a One-Year Period, October 2006 to September 2007, that about 1,589,000 persons used an emergency shelter and/or transitional housing during the 12-month period, which is about 1 in every 200 persons in the United States was in a homeless facility in that time period. Individuals accounted for 1,115,054 or 70.2% and families numbered 473,541 or 29.8%. The number of persons in sheltered households with Children was about 130,968.

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