View Poll Results: Does capitalism force a percentage of a countries population into poverty?>

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Thread: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

  1. #81
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    every system creates poverty from the lack of a system (olden times) to every thing we have tried. Capitalism creates less poverty, but it still creates some. The inversion does not have to be shown for the premise to be true.
    But it does, for something to create another thing, you have to show that in absence of that something, that the creation would not exist.

    If a person in Bangladesh did not have that job earning $20 a month, what would they be doing to provide for them self?
    If it is superior, why are they not doing it now?
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    But it does, for something to create another thing, you have to show that in absence of that something, that the creation would not exist.
    The creation is the fact that certain jobs will never pay well. Didn't I just go over this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If a person in Bangladesh did not have that job earning $20 a month, what would they be doing to provide for them self?
    If it is superior, why are they not doing it now?
    If you read my previous posts, I already stated that capitalism is the best system we have come up with so far.

  3. #83
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The even stronger correlation is the level of mathematical literacy. The majority of graduate study revolves around higher mathematics.
    If we are talking about jobs that require a higher understanding of math, you're right.
    On the other hand, if everyone were mathematicians, you'd derive very little benefit from that education.

    With the exception, of personal finance but that's like using a nuke, to kill a deer.
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  4. #84
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    The creation is the fact that certain jobs will never pay well. Didn't I just go over this?
    Not paying well, isn't the equivalent of poverty though.
    I don't think I get paid well but I'm surely not impoverished.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    If you read my previous posts, I already stated that capitalism is the best system we have come up with so far.
    I understand that but I think that "capitalism creates poverty" is an invalid statement.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Not paying well, isn't the equivalent of poverty though.
    I don't think I get paid well but I'm surely not impoverished.
    My guess is you are using an absolute definition of poverty. And it is true that the poor in this country generally do better than the poor in most of the world. However, there is a very real and destructive psychological aspect to poverty solely relies on a more "how one is doing compared to the rest of their society" view.

    My guess is you are looking at the first one and I am looking at the second one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I understand that but I think that "capitalism creates poverty" is an invalid statement.
    I am looking at it from the perspective that not everyone is going to be prosperous no matter how well suited they are for it. This is inherent in all economic systems.

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Which is not capitalism.

    Look, I understand that supply and demand is the cardinal rule. If you wanted to think like one of those libertarian fundamentalists, you might even think it's the only rule. Certainly you'll hear many right-wingers talking as if "capitalism" is just a convenient shorthand for the interests of big business. But in a broader historical view, there's a lot more to it than that. A capitalistic society is, first, a society. That means everyone plays by the same rules. In a capitalist society, those rules form a coherent policy that encourages economic activism, not stagnation. A corporation, in a so-called free market, that makes its money exploiting workers on a completely uneven field doesn't qualify as any kind of society, much less a capitalist one...no matter what Karl Marx or Dick Cheney may tell you.
    I would beg to differ about capitalism and everyone "plays by the same rules". The wealthy have a privileged world.

    Economic activism ? What exactly do you mean?

    Thirdly .. I understand materialism has exploded under capitalism. Marx predicted communism would be as materialistic but misunderstood and underestimated individual profit motives. Clearly advances in science and physic's have been translated into the spreading of material goods. Just happens that the market is the way it is spread around.. it certainly isn't a perfect market and it has always been overseen by the state.

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    My guess is you are using an absolute definition of poverty. And it is true that the poor in this country generally do better than the poor in most of the world. However, there is a very real and destructive psychological aspect to poverty solely relies on a more "how one is doing compared to the rest of their society" view.

    My guess is you are looking at the first one and I am looking at the second one.
    There is an absolute threshold of poverty though.
    Adequate food, water, shelter and positive human contact are things that make a person not impoverished.

    In the U.S. practically no one is poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I am looking at it from the perspective that not everyone is going to be prosperous no matter how well suited they are for it. This is inherent in all economic systems.
    That is largely true but it's not because of the economic system, it's largely the behavior of the people in that system.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    No. Capitalism creates prosperity and allows any person to attain it. Some live in poverty because poverty is measured relatively. Our poor are richer than most of the world's rich. The difference between capitalist systems and socialist systems is that in socialism everyone is equally in poverty because the government put them all there thinking equality creates wealth.

    In a capitalist system, you choose whether or not you will be rich or poor. Some people are not able bodied, in which case in a capitalist society we are free to have compassion on them and help them, but if you are able bodied, then you get to choose whether or not you will be successful. And people measure success differently based on their hedonic preferences. Some people measure freedom, the ability to get drunk every night, and the ability not to work as their personal success. They are the ones who sit by the side of the road, in the block between the free AA meetings and the public library, with a cup in their hand a bottle by their side.

    Others measure wealth as experience and knowledge that they gain. Others measure it as money. In a capitalist society, we can acheive what we want. In a socialist society, you take what you are given.
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    There is an absolute threshold of poverty though.
    Adequate food, water, shelter and positive human contact are things that make a person not impoverished.

    In the U.S. practically no one is poor.
    You are correct if we are only talking about physical needs. People are much more complex creatures than this though, which is why I find this statement inadequate to address the effect of poverty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That is largely true but it's not because of the economic system, it's largely the behavior of the people in that system.
    Economics is based on human behavior so those two statements are one in the same. We can never look at an economic system without considering the warts left by human imperfection. That was the problem with communism.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 09-25-10 at 12:02 PM.

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    Our poor are richer than most of the world's rich.
    lol.. most of the rich live in the US.. and I don't think you have ever left your country. The market exists in all countries in many they are even far more unregulated/taxed then in the US.
    Last edited by Gabriel; 09-25-10 at 12:02 PM.

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