View Poll Results: Does capitalism force a percentage of a countries population into poverty?>

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Thread: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

  1. #21
    Educator Gabriel's Avatar
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Well for the west.. your working poor live in china. But further there is no way to escape implications of the bell curve for capitalism. Clearly capitalism forces have and have nots. Not everyone can be rich.

    Yes capitalism enforces social stratification.

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Well for the west.. your working poor live in china. But further there is no way to escape implications of the bell curve for capitalism. Clearly capitalism forces have and have nots. Not everyone can be rich.

    Yes capitalism enforces social stratification.
    I think that depends on what you mean by "rich." Not everyone can be in the top ten percent, obviously, but there's no reason why everyone in a modern society can't be rich by historical standards. Exploiting workers who live in non-capitalist societies is another matter, of course. That's not what I'd call capitalism.

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    I think that depends on what you mean by "rich." Not everyone can be in the top ten percent, obviously, but there's no reason why everyone in a modern society can't be rich by historical standards. Exploiting workers who live in non-capitalist societies is another matter, of course. That's not what I'd call capitalism.
    It sure is capitalism. It does not matter where the multinational corperations make their money.

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Capitalism does not force people into poverty. It does not cause poverty. The absence of an economic system results in practically all people being in poverty. The various economic systems raise people out of poverty. So the question is how many people are in poverty and how can you minimize it?

    Feudalism left most people in poverty and only nobles and merchants rose out of poverty.

    Mercantilism did better.

    Communism and socialism tries to spread wealth to all members of society, by dictating equality of outcome, and since there was little growth and innovation, practically all people are in poverty.

    Capitalism raises all people. Our people in poverty have TVs, cars, food, apartments. They do this on minimum wage. Our poor are orders of magnitude richer than the poor in third world countries. The fact that there is a growing gap between rich and poor, means that the rich grow more than the poor, but the poor still grow. As noted above, systems which try for equality of outcome are detrimental to society as a whole. If you don't like being poor, get an education and get out of your condition by working hard.

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Capitalism raises all people. Our people in poverty have TVs, cars, food, apartments. They do this on minimum wage. Our poor are orders of magnitude richer than the poor in third world countries. The fact that there is a growing gap between rich and poor, means that the rich grow more than the poor, but the poor still grow. As noted above, systems which try for equality of outcome are detrimental to society as a whole. If you don't like being poor, get an education and get out of your condition by working hard.
    Which is why you need governemnt to temper capitalism.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    It sure is capitalism. It does not matter where the multinational corperations make their money.
    No, it's essentially slave labor. That's about as far from capitalism as you can get.

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    If you don't like being poor, get an education and get out of your condition by working hard.
    The problem with this idea is that the market will always price some jobs cheaply, thereby forcing someone to be poor (even if we all had MIT quality educations and were highly motivated, someone has to take out the trash). While your statement works fairly well when talking to individuals, it does not work when you look at the system as a whole.

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Capitalism does not force people into poverty. It does not cause poverty. The absence of an economic system results in practically all people being in poverty. The various economic systems raise people out of poverty. So the question is how many people are in poverty and how can you minimize it?

    Feudalism left most people in poverty and only nobles and merchants rose out of poverty.

    Mercantilism did better.

    Communism and socialism tries to spread wealth to all members of society, by dictating equality of outcome, and since there was little growth and innovation, practically all people are in poverty.

    Capitalism raises all people. Our people in poverty have TVs, cars, food, apartments. They do this on minimum wage. Our poor are orders of magnitude richer than the poor in third world countries. The fact that there is a growing gap between rich and poor, means that the rich grow more than the poor, but the poor still grow. As noted above, systems which try for equality of outcome are detrimental to society as a whole. If you don't like being poor, get an education and get out of your condition by working hard.
    I would disagree with the bolded part. It doesn't necessarily mean that. In a capitalist society everyone's wealth will tend to grow, but in the messed up version we have now it's no guarantee.

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    No, it's essentially slave labor. That's about as far from capitalism as you can get.
    lol.. so your corperations arn't profiting from paid "slave" labor in third world countries? The absence of democracy does not matter to capitalism. Capitalism and democracy arn't the same thing.

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    The problem with this idea is that the market will always price some jobs cheaply, thereby forcing someone to be poor (even if we all had MIT quality educations and were highly motivated, someone has to take out the trash). While your statement works fairly well when talking to individuals, it does not work when you look at the system as a whole.
    But sanitation workers are paid rather well to take out the trash, aren't they?

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