View Poll Results: Does capitalism force a percentage of a countries population into poverty?>

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Thread: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

  1. #91
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    You are correct if we are only talking about physical needs. People are much more complex creatures than this though, which is why I find this statement inadequate to address the effect of poverty.
    People need positive human interactions, love and belonging.
    Those are needed non physical things.
    I included that.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Economics is based on human behavior so those two statements are one in the same.
    Yes and no, capitalism is a system of private ownership.
    Everyone has the opportunity to privately own potential profit generators, yet some people choose not to participate.

    Edit add:
    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    We can never look at an economic system without considering the warts left by human imperfection. That was the problem with communism.
    I do see those things, I don't see a need to correct a lot of them.
    I prefer for those things to eventually remove themselves in the human predisposition over time.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 09-25-10 at 12:07 PM.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    People need positive human interactions, love and belonging.
    Those are needed non physical things.
    I included that.
    People also need esteem, self confidence, and hope. In many cases poverty robs a person of those things. This negative feedback is part of the trap of poverty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yes and no, capitalism is a system of private ownership.
    Everyone has the opportunity to privately own potential profit generators, yet some people choose not to participate.
    In many cases, yes, that is correct. But in conjunction with those three needs I mentioned in this post. I cannot fault people for losing sight of what they are capable of. I have been in poverty and I know how it can kill a soul very quickly (this is a large reason of why I remain a liberal despite my own personal prosperity)
    Last edited by tacomancer; 09-25-10 at 12:08 PM.

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    lol.. I just thought about something.. these guys are prolly the most hard core free market people out there. No taxes.. regulation.. government.


  4. #94
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    lol.. I just thought about something.. these guys are prolly the most hard core free market people out there. No taxes.. regulation.. government.

    What's wrong with what they are doing?
    Do they need a Sears or Walmart to fit your desire of good?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    What's wrong with what they are doing?
    Do they need a Sears or Walmart to fit your desire of good?
    I just thought it was funny is all.. this is pure unrestrained capitalism. There is nothing wrong with what they are doing nessesarily. I just thought it was funny how free market wackos think capitalism makes everyone rich.

  6. #96
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    People also need esteem, self confidence, and hope. In many cases poverty robs a person of those things. This negative feedback is part of the trap of poverty.
    Even those positive traits like hope can feed the negative loop though.
    Especially when the odds are low, like playing the lottery.

    I don't think perfectly rational people would be any better than mostly emotional people.
    Which is what we have now, although I do seek to rid ourselves of some of those negative emotions, where they are better suited in the correct time and place.


    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    In many cases, yes, that is correct. But in conjunction with those three needs I mentioned in this post. I cannot fault people for losing sight of what they are capable of. I have been in poverty and I know how it can kill a soul very quickly (this is a large reason of why I remain a liberal despite my own personal prosperity)

    I understand what your saying completely, what I'm getting at is that capitalism does not create poverty, it creates opportunity.
    Poverty is largely an absence of opportunity
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I just thought it was funny is all.. this is pure unrestrained capitalism. There is nothing wrong with what they are doing nessesarily. I just thought it was funny how free market wackos think capitalism makes everyone rich.
    It makes everyone less poor.
    No one said it makes everyone rich.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It makes everyone less poor.
    No one said it makes everyone rich.
    Oh.. I think that is the suggestion indeed. These unregulated/untaxed capitalist must be rolling in the money.

  9. #99
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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Capitalism does not force people into poverty. It does not cause poverty. The absence of an economic system results in practically all people being in poverty. The various economic systems raise people out of poverty. So the question is how many people are in poverty and how can you minimize it?

    Feudalism left most people in poverty and only nobles and merchants rose out of poverty.

    Mercantilism did better.

    Communism and socialism tries to spread wealth to all members of society, by dictating equality of outcome, and since there was little growth and innovation, practically all people are in poverty.

    Capitalism raises all people. Our people in poverty have TVs, cars, food, apartments. They do this on minimum wage. Our poor are orders of magnitude richer than the poor in third world countries. The fact that there is a growing gap between rich and poor, means that the rich grow more than the poor, but the poor still grow. As noted above, systems which try for equality of outcome are detrimental to society as a whole. If you don't like being poor, get an education and get out of your condition by working hard.
    I'd agree. This is not capitalism's fault. A certain percentage of people will always be poor - no matter the political or economic system. There were poor and will be poor and poverty as long as there is a human race. That being said, "poverty" here in the U.S. is living like a king in other countries where "poverty" exists. People in the U.S. have no context of what poverty is as we have not experienced it. My mother lived through 1944 - 1945 Europe... that was bombed out, got nothing poverty. The closest thing America has to actual poverty are the North American Eskimo-Aleut or other Native American reservations. Yes, there are homeless and tent city's around the U.S. where poverty really is poverty as well - I'm not dismissing that. But my perception is most calculations of poverty are mostly lower income households which, when compared to say African poverty --- is not poverty at all.

    Poverty is defined: "Absolute thresholds are fixed at a point in time and updated solely for price changes.... In contrast, relative thresholds, as commonly defined, are developed by reference to the actual expenditures (or income) of the population." Hardly a black & white issue, the census has an entire document on how poverty is defined and the thresholds, as well as how the definition has changed. http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/img/povmeas/poverty.pdf
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Does Capitalism force a percentage of the population to live in poverty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It makes everyone less poor.
    No one said it makes everyone rich.
    Capitalism in its rawest state does not make people less poor. Just the opposite. That is why we set up a safety net for those who are not able to compete for any of a variety of reasons. The debate we are having in the country is largely just how big that safety net should be.

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