View Poll Results: Do you believe in 'life' after death?

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  • Yes

    23 45.10%
  • No

    17 33.33%
  • Uncertain

    11 21.57%
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Thread: Is there life after death?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Then you're a halfwit.
    do 2 halfwits make a whole wit?
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  2. #72
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    I don't know about life after death, but if there is, there is no hell or eternal torture. I don't believe in that kind of God. I think some of the early writers added that kind of stuff, plus all of Revelations...
    Oracle of Utah
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  3. #73
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    there was no kind of life before I was born as I didn't exist, I expect death,since I'll cease to exist, to be the same.
    I use a lot of satire and sarcasm so keep that in mind when reading my posts.

  4. #74
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    That really doesn't answer my question.
    How would heaven/paradise be heaven/paradise if you were "sad"?
    Would you simply stop caring after awhile that your children were roasting eternally in a fiery pit?
    It doesn't seem like the sort of thing one could simply get over, since it is, after all, eternal.
    A million years from now, they'll still be roasting in that same fiery pit, and you'll still be floating around on a cloud playing a harp or whatever.
    Do you think you'd ever be able to be happy?
    If not, it isn't really paradise, is it?

    In fact, most parents would describe knowing that one's children are being tortured and being helpless to do anything about it as "hell".
    Would I feel sadness? Yes. Whilst I was alive and could witness their own self destruction and know I could do little.
    But on Judgement day and beyond. No. They made their choice, I answer my sins. I expect no less from them. Even if they are sent to hell. I would expect the same attitude from my own parents in regards to me, I would hope they wouldn't be foolish enough to get all depressed over my own choices.

    If my children chose to leave God. Why would I feel closer to them than say ... a fellow Muslim who shares the same belief and conviction as I do? I'm closer to number 2 than 1. Blood ties or not.
    Last edited by Laila; 09-24-10 at 07:54 PM.


  5. #75
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Would I feel sadness? Yes. Whilst I was alive and could witness their own self destruction and know I could do little.
    But on Judgement day and beyond. No. They made their choice, I answer my sins. I expect no less from them. Even if they are sent to hell. I would expect the same attitude from my own parents in regards to me, I would hope they wouldn't be foolish enough to get all depressed over my own choices.

    If my children chose to leave God. Why would I feel closer to them than say ... a fellow Muslim who shares the same belief and conviction as I do? I'm closer to number 2 than 1. Blood ties or not.


    Crazy, baby.

  6. #76
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Crazy, baby.
    I can understand why someone would think that


  7. #77
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    First of, your argument is just as positive assertion as mine. You are saying, there is no afterlife. I'm saying there is afterlife. That is two different theories, like there is life on other planets or there isn't life on other planets. Or Newtons theories vs Einsteins theories.
    Here's a nice quote about the difference between what I'm arguing and what you're arguing:

    "[W]hen it comes to using observational evidence to argue for existence (a positive claim) or non-existence (a negative claim), you can't prove a negative, whereas you can prove a positive. (Here I'm using "prove" to mean "establish with certainty".) ... And I think that this is what people typically mean when they state that "you can't prove a negative". I also think that the imbalance in the difficulty of demonstrating non-existence compared to existence is a strong argument that the burden of proof should be on those who claim the existence of something."

    - Log base 2: Things that (probably) don't exist

    I'm not saying that I'm 100% certain that souls don't exist. There are, after all, only 2 things that I can say with 100% certainty, that I exist (cogito ergo sum, as Descartes put it), and any mathematical proof (i.e. I know with 100% certainty that 2 + 2 = 4, because logic allows no other conclusion). Anything else, I can only say that I'm more or less certain are true or are not true. For practical purposes, then, I am willing to say that something exists if there is compelling evidence that it exists. I'm pretty sure my cat exists because I can see it, touch it, feed it, and get annoyed at it when it wakes me up at 4 in the morning. Am I 100% sure my cat exists? No, because there's an extremely remote possibility that an evil demon is manipulating my mind to trick me into believing my cat exists. But until I'm shown compelling evidence for this, I'm going to continue believing my cat exists because it's the most likely explanation of the meowing that wakes me up at 4 in the morning. To function day to day, we need to make these sorts of assumptions, otherwise, we couldn't be sure of anything, other than mathematical proofs and our own existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Now there is some evidence that there is life on other planets, because we know the size of the universe and it's likely it has happened somewhere else because of the size. Let's pretend we didn't and it could range from 100 lightyears to infinite. Then scientifically we would have to say, we don't know if there is inteligent life or not. The fact that there is no evidence for life on other planets doesn't mean there is no life out there.

    So your argument about positive assertions is illogical.
    Ibid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    How? Neurons fire in our brains and give signals to other parts of the body, who then gives signals back so the brain can do something else. This could in theory make a functioning body, who interacted with it's surroundings. But where is the feeling of existence? Neurons only transmit electrical signals. There has to be something else.



    They are not fundementally different persons. It just looks like they are, because they behave differently after the brain damage.

    Souls are not the sum of your personality, feeling or ideas. Those are in your brain. Souls are the governing body, it is what gives you the feeling of existence. If you placed my soul into another brain, I would have a completly different personality because I have different ideas and memories. I wouldn't even know that I have been someone else.
    Essentially, I'm making an Occum's razor argument here. My feeling of existence is sufficiently explained as the product of neurons firing in a given pattern. It's unnecessary to add a soul. So until I'm shown something that is not sufficiently explicable by the aforementioned neurons, I have no need to add a soul. The fact that you use the term "feeling" of existence suggests exactly that. It's a feeling. And all feelings can be attributed to materialistic explanations.

    If you're placed into someone else's body, and consequently have a different personality, different memories, etc., then you are a different person. All that remains of your former self is the "feeling of existence." And again, this, as a feeling, is sufficiently explained by your neural chemistry. There is nothing left that requires an explanation.

  8. #78
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamJB View Post
    Here's a nice quote about the difference between what I'm arguing and what you're arguing:

    "[W]hen it comes to using observational evidence to argue for existence (a positive claim) or non-existence (a negative claim), you can't prove a negative, whereas you can prove a positive. (Here I'm using "prove" to mean "establish with certainty".) ... And I think that this is what people typically mean when they state that "you can't prove a negative". I also think that the imbalance in the difficulty of demonstrating non-existence compared to existence is a strong argument that the burden of proof should be on those who claim the existence of something."
    Not necessarily. For instance my life on other planets example, show clearly that in many cases is wrong. We can't assume there is no life on other planets, even if we didn't know the size of the universe.

    Also, I could turn it around and say that you argue that after life there is nothing. That is a positive argument as well.

    My take is that we should have at least some evidence that something exist, before we can take up the issue if it exist. But we do have evidence, the feeling of existence.

    Essentially, I'm making an Occum's razor argument here. My feeling of existence is sufficiently explained as the product of neurons firing in a given pattern. It's unnecessary to add a soul. So until I'm shown something that is not sufficiently explicable by the aforementioned neurons, I have no need to add a soul. The fact that you use the term "feeling" of existence suggests exactly that. It's a feeling. And all feelings can be attributed to materialistic explanations.

    If you're placed into someone else's body, and consequently have a different personality, different memories, etc., then you are a different person. All that remains of your former self is the "feeling of existence." And again, this, as a feeling, is sufficiently explained by your neural chemistry. There is nothing left that requires an explanation.
    No, it can't. Electrical impulses doesn't give any feelings of existence and can't explain it. How do neurons explain that you can only see through one brain? It can't explain the feeling at all.

    There is nothing wrong with using the word feeling, because that is what it is. Classical science can't explain feeling of existence, that do exist. This suggest that there is something more.

    In the last paragraph you assume you are right. If I'm right, then it is something important that stays put. It is still you that see through the eyes. If you change brain, then you will act completely different, but you will control a different body. Also it is still you who see through the brain and that may influence your actions.
    Last edited by Camlon; 09-26-10 at 09:01 PM.

  9. #79
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamJB View Post
    Essentially, I'm making an Occum's razor argument here. My feeling of existence is sufficiently explained as the product of neurons firing in a given pattern. It's unnecessary to add a soul.
    All of these nurons firing, etc... this is all a function of the laws of physics.
    To control the result of these nurons firing -- that is, to have free will -- one must have control of the mechanism that creates these firings -- that is, control over the laws of physics.
    What gives you that control?

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