View Poll Results: Do you believe in 'life' after death?

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    23 45.10%
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    17 33.33%
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    11 21.57%
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Thread: Is there life after death?

  1. #61
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    How do you suppose you will live a "perfect eternal life" if your loved ones- possibly your spouse, parents, and children- are all suffering eternal torment in hell?
    Do you suppose this will simply cease to bother you after awhile?
    It's a choice. I will have God and others as my loved ones. There will be no sorrow in heaven, and yes it's sad to think those I love will be sent to hell, but that is my motivation in this life to help guide them to Christ so they can escape that. People chose damnation in hell for eternity, it's heartbreaking, but ultimately it's their choice.
    Last edited by digsbe; 09-23-10 at 09:23 PM.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It's a choice. I will have God and others as my loved ones. There will be no sorrow in heaven, and yes it's sad to think those I love will be sent to hell, but that is my motivation in this life to help guide them to Christ so they can escape that. People chose damnation in hell for eternity, it's heartbreaking, but ultimately it's their choice.
    So you'll be pretty much okay with seeing your children tortured for eternity, because you'll have "others" as your loved ones. A blissful existence will still be possible, because your former loved ones "chose damnation for all eternity", and therefore it's not really your problem.

    Would you still be you, then? Or would you be somebody else altogether?

  3. #63
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Thus, faith.
    No, that's not faith. Faith is making a positive assertion without adequate evidence. I am making no positive assertion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    THis is curious.
    Why do you assume that only the material can interact with the material world?
    Doesnt this very much depend on the specific properties of the material and immaterial?
    Further, isnt this based on your understanding of the material world? Isnt it quite possible that your understanding is incomplete?
    Of course it is. And as soon as I'm shown how my understanding is incomplete, I'll adjust my worldview accordingly.

    As for the material world, I don't really know how else to describe it. "Material," in my definition, means that something is capable of exerting a noticeable influence on something else. It is observable in some way. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever demonstrated something acting on the material world that is attributable only to a "soul."

  4. #64
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    I don't think it's a very fair comparison, because we have nothing to suggest that there is an invisible teapot out there. We do have something to suggest that there is souls, the feeling of existence.

    Actually we can compare this to inteligent life on other planets. Does the fact that we have no evidence for inteligent life on other planets mean that there is no life on other planets. Of course not! Does it show that it is unlikely that there is no inteligent life on other planets. Absolutly not. To say something like that, you need evidence. You don't have any evidence to say that there is no afterlife and if you believe there is no afterlife without evidence, then you are just as spiritual as I am.
    You make a good point about intelligent life in the universe. I believe it's rather likely, but this, again, is based on probabilities. Google The Drake Equation for a more complete discussion of that point.

    As for me being as spiritual as you are, see my above post regarding positive assertions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Who gave you the idea that we can observe everything in the universe? I'm sure there are tons of material out there we haven't discovered and some of them may be impossible to discover.

    You don't need to know where I'm going with it. Just answer the question, if my beliefs are so unlikely then you should be able to answer. So what gives us the perception of living in only one body. How can you explain that feeling scientifically.
    The order in which neurons in our brains fire is what gives us our perception of existence. The same way they give us all of our perceptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Doesn't matter if a state is permanent or temporary. I'm just saying that if you change the brain, then people are going to act different. It's not an argument against souls, because souls only influence the brain. They don't control it.
    Acting differently and being a fundamentally different person are two different things. If I lost my right leg, I would behave differently than if I didn't, but it says nothing about the existence of my soul. People who have suffered traumatic brain injuries, however, are fundamentally different people. And if your soul is the sum total of your personality, feelings, ideas, etc., then this can be changed by altering the makeup of the brain. Suggesting that all that's needed to explain our perception, personalities, etc. can be accounted for by patterns of neuron firings.
    Last edited by WilliamJB; 09-23-10 at 11:28 PM.

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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGirlNextDoor View Post
    Is there "life" after death - or is dead, dead.

    Elaborate if you'd like.
    I believe there is an energy based lifeform in this universe that uses organic tissue as a host.

    This energy based life is what coordinates cells to become very complex organic beings with every cell in its body working in conjunction.

    This energy based life is the soul of organic tissue.

    Everything on every planet with living tissue has to have an ecosystem where it is a constant cycle of consumption...in other words a constant cycle of every species attacking, killing, scavanging, and consuming....even plants have an energy based life form coordinating all its cells to be a complex organic being...this can be shown in how even plants somehow developed many types of defense mechanisms, even consuming insects with traps, and ways to proliferate.

    This acts as a type of snowball effect where living tissue is consuming, recycling, reincarnating, and evolving....

    The energy based life using these organic tissues as a host during this cycle... also has a snowball effect where it too evolves and reincarnates with each generation of the ecosystem...

    It is this energy based life using organic tissue as a host...being its soul...that will move on if it reaches specifications...

    These specifications will be judged by whatever put all the energy and matter into the singularity that created our Universe...
    Last edited by creativedreams; 09-24-10 at 05:45 AM.

  6. #66
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGirlNextDoor View Post
    Is there "life" after death - or is dead, dead.

    Elaborate if you'd like.
    For me I believe there is life after death.
    Judgement day, heaven/hell. The whole deal really.

    For me no one is sent to heaven or hell until Judgement day occurs.
    Last edited by Laila; 09-24-10 at 07:21 AM.


  7. #67
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    How do you suppose you will live a "perfect eternal life" if your loved ones- possibly your spouse, parents, and children- are all suffering eternal torment in hell?
    Do you suppose this will simply cease to bother you after awhile?
    Everyone makes their own choices in their life.
    If any of my loved ones choose to divert from the path of God and deviate. I truly hope they feel strongly in their convictions to then carry it on even after death.

    I would have shown my children the path but I cannot force them to walk it. They can choose to accept it or reject it.
    I'd feel sadness they made such a mistake and hence why I would try to raise any children I have as good Muslims of strong faith to avoid it
    Last edited by Laila; 09-24-10 at 07:46 AM.


  8. #68
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamJB View Post
    You make a good point about intelligent life in the universe. I believe it's rather likely, but this, again, is based on probabilities. Google The Drake Equation for a more complete discussion of that point.

    As for me being as spiritual as you are, see my above post regarding positive assertions.
    First of, your argument is just as positive assertion as mine. You are saying, there is no afterlife. I'm saying there is afterlife. That is two different theories, like there is life on other planets or there isn't life on other planets. Or Newtons theories vs Einsteins theories.

    Now there is some evidence that there is life on other planets, because we know the size of the universe and it's likely it has happened somewhere else because of the size. Let's pretend we didn't and it could range from 100 lightyears to infinite. Then scientifically we would have to say, we don't know if there is inteligent life or not. The fact that there is no evidence for life on other planets doesn't mean there is no life out there.

    So your argument about positive assertions is illogical.


    The order in which neurons in our brains fire is what gives us our perception of existence. The same way they give us all of our perceptions.
    How? Neurons fire in our brains and give signals to other parts of the body, who then gives signals back so the brain can do something else. This could in theory make a functioning body, who interacted with it's surroundings. But where is the feeling of existence? Neurons only transmit electrical signals. There has to be something else.

    Acting differently and being a fundamentally different person are two different things. If I lost my right leg, I would behave differently than if I didn't, but it says nothing about the existence of my soul. People who have suffered traumatic brain injuries, however, are fundamentally different people. And if your soul is the sum total of your personality, feelings, ideas, etc., then this can be changed by altering the makeup of the brain. Suggesting that all that's needed to explain our perception, personalities, etc. can be accounted for by patterns of neuron firings.
    They are not fundementally different persons. It just looks like they are, because they behave differently after the brain damage.

    Souls are not the sum of your personality, feeling or ideas. Those are in your brain. Souls are the governing body, it is what gives you the feeling of existence. If you placed my soul into another brain, I would have a completly different personality because I have different ideas and memories. I wouldn't even know that I have been someone else.
    Last edited by Camlon; 09-24-10 at 11:24 AM.

  9. #69
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Yes, there's life after death, but only if you're an organ donor.

  10. #70
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    Re: Is there life after death?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    Everyone makes their own choices in their life.
    If any of my loved ones choose to divert from the path of God and deviate. I truly hope they feel strongly in their convictions to then carry it on even after death.

    I would have shown my children the path but I cannot force them to walk it. They can choose to accept it or reject it.
    I'd feel sadness they made such a mistake and hence why I would try to raise any children I have as good Muslims of strong faith to avoid it
    That really doesn't answer my question.
    How would heaven/paradise be heaven/paradise if you were "sad"?
    Would you simply stop caring after awhile that your children were roasting eternally in a fiery pit?
    It doesn't seem like the sort of thing one could simply get over, since it is, after all, eternal.
    A million years from now, they'll still be roasting in that same fiery pit, and you'll still be floating around on a cloud playing a harp or whatever.
    Do you think you'd ever be able to be happy?
    If not, it isn't really paradise, is it?

    In fact, most parents would describe knowing that one's children are being tortured and being helpless to do anything about it as "hell".
    Last edited by 1069; 09-24-10 at 07:12 PM.

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