View Poll Results: Tax cuts cost nothing and are free

Voters
115. You may not vote on this poll
  • No way.

    47 40.87%
  • Yes, they are free

    68 59.13%
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Thread: Tax cuts are free

  1. #41
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what's a veto-do you think the dems could override a veto of a spending bill?
    Yes.

    tell me-when tax cuts were issued by the Bush administration, what was cut back to "pay for them"
    Nothing. They were debt financed.

    I see no response by you to post #22.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #42
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Since tax cuts reliably result in revenue increases
    Uh, good luck proving that, especially at current rates.

    since we're on the totalitarian side of the Laffer Curve), it's safe to say that tax cuts are self-financing.
    This is your assumption, which the CBO does not agree with. Furthermore, the Laffer Curve is nothing more then conjecture once you move to reasonable levels.

    I see you, like Conservative, do not want to use linear regression to prove your claims.

    If something pays for itself, it's free, right?
    Except you have to prove that it paid for itself. Tell me, why is that NO reputable economist, including Bush and Reagan's belief that tax cuts pay for themselves?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #43
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post

    But in this topic, I assume we are talking about more reasonble tax levels.
    Some of us are. Some of us are pretending that 35% = 100%. The same people who think that the child tax credit isn't free but tax cuts are.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  4. #44
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Turtledude has repetitively argued that tax cuts cost nothing, aka they are free.

    So do you agree, that tax cuts cost nothing, that they are revenue neutral, that they are free?
    Seeing how taxes are not the government's, so it does cost nothing for a tax cut. It's the government that chooses to spend like a gold digging twit married to a millionaire,not the tax payer.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 09-19-10 at 09:23 AM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  5. #45
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    The work less is a false anatomy based on a perverse concept of "cost". Costs are what you have to pay. If you work less and get less income, your costs have not gone up. Merely your ability to pay for costs has. Same with the government. THus I noted offsets. OC and the other statists think that a cost means spending less on social welfare programs. That is not a cost but an offset. the ability to pay for something decreases with less revenue but your costs do not change. That is why the claim that tax cuts cost something is complete bs. Its a decrease (sometimes) in revenue which is different than a cost.
    Last edited by TurtleDude; 09-19-10 at 09:06 AM.



  6. #46
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Tax cut can be compared to working less. Would you say it is free to work less. Don't thinks so.
    wrong-if you work less your ability to pay for costs has gone down ASSUMING working less means less revenue. THus your ability to PAY for real costs (bills, debts) has decreased. But your costs have not gone up.



  7. #47
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    tell me-when tax cuts were issued by the Bush administration, what was cut back to "pay for them"
    Not much.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    when the tax cuts continued what was used to "pay for them"
    Government debt, which is why we need increased tax revenue to pay it off.

  8. #48
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    but you are also reducing what is taken from US

    tax cuts don't have to be paid for. spending does. if a government operates on a balanced budget if there are less taxes there has to be less spending so you can argue that a tax cut (assuming that means less revenue to the government) would mean the government could not spend as much on other stuff. is that a "cost"
    Yes trading a tax cut for other spending is a cost. If you cut back spending to avoid losing revenue that does not make tax cuts free.

  9. #49
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    It isn't just turtledude that is complete denial of all this. It's like arguing with a brick wall. Cutting off a source of revenue costs money. The tiny percentage of employers in that top percentile who will pay more taxes have zero effect on the tax base. The tax cuts do not pay for themselves. Further the assumption is that while this minuscule group will not try and expand or employ more people because they pay a small portion of their wealth in taxes is poor logic at best.

    I can see value in continuation of middleclass tax cuts somewhat. Obviously a couple thousand dollars in working class peoples pockets makes a difference in their ability to consume. I don't believe tax cuts are an appropriate way to go about stimulus personally but letting the Bush Tax cuts expire on the middle class in a time of recession isn't a good idea. Sometime in the future after the economy recovers taxation will have to come back. Deficit spending can be dealt with in good times .. not in bad times.

    Arguments with turtledude usually end up in some variety of elitist insinuation where by all the unfortunate people deserve what they get and all the wealthy are victims of the parasitic state. What he does not acknowledge is the parasitic nature of the wealthy on society. Clearly if there is a "tapeworm" on American society you can find it on wall street financials and the banking industry.. not main street.
    Last edited by Gabriel; 09-19-10 at 09:54 AM.

  10. #50
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Turtledude has repetitively argued that tax cuts cost nothing, aka they are free.

    So do you agree, that tax cuts cost nothing, that they are revenue neutral, that they are free?
    it depends on the particular cut, and it depends upon your horizon.

    for example if you were to slash income taxes from 35% to 15%, it is unlikely that within the next two years income in the US would rise by an order enough to make up the difference; but if you were to offer a one-year capital gains tax cut of (say) from 20 to 15%, then it is possible that enough people would seek to make good on that cut by realizing their gains that you would see an increase in total revenues. However, if you are willing to cut spending in order to match your 35 to 15% income tax decrease, and wait it out, then it is highly likely that over time the increase in growth will more than make up for the temporary revenue loss. so in the first two years, perhaps not so much; in the first 50, almost definitely.

    i would offer that the vast majority of tax cuts tend to be almost immediately mitigated; some heavily, some not, by an increase in the taxed activity.

    Anywho, while I voted "no" because the typical horizon as i have seen it discussed is 10 years, for some, obviously, the answer would be yes.
    Last edited by cpwill; 09-19-10 at 10:33 AM.

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