View Poll Results: Tax cuts cost nothing and are free

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115. You may not vote on this poll
  • No way.

    47 40.87%
  • Yes, they are free

    68 59.13%
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Thread: Tax cuts are free

  1. #211
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    So, if you were in the top 1-2%, according to what you state above, you'd be screaming that the "tax cuts" resulted in an extra cost for you? Right?
    nope-I would argue that the system that allows too many people to have representation without taxation causes problems that we currently have-like lots of voters thinking that the rich have the duty to solve the deficit when its actually those who get much without paying for it that cause the problems

    I totally oppose any sort of differential treatment in terms of a progressive income tax unless those who statutorily have to pay more get statutory benefits above those who pay less



  2. #212
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Tax Cuts go well with Overall Reduced Government Spending

    They should try it some time. I hear it's fabulous dahling
    Indeed, but I'd settle for simply the reduced spending aspect
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  3. #213
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    nope-I would argue that the system that allows too many people to have representation without taxation causes problems that we currently have-like lots of voters thinking that the rich have the duty to solve the deficit when its actually those who get much without paying for it that cause the problems

    I totally oppose any sort of differential treatment in terms of a progressive income tax unless those who statutorily have to pay more get statutory benefits above those who pay less
    Well, who are you going to tax, if not the wealthy corporations. My family originally hails from the great state of Louisiana (*cough - cough*) and in the not-so-distant past, it was the petroleum industry that carried the majority of the tax burden. Because of the cost-shifting that resulted from the "unbalanced" tax structure (as you seem to refer to it) the vast majority of middle-income and working class Louisiaians paid much lower state income and property taxes for many, many years. Are you saying that this was unfair? - it certainly did not keep the Petroleum Industry from booming - and it seemed to help keep the cost of living down for the average citizen of the state.
    "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr. Carl Sagan

  4. #214
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Indeed, but I'd settle for simply the reduced spending aspect
    do you think those who push for the rich paying more taxes have any interest in cutting government spending



  5. #215
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Lets use this as an analogy

    Your childern have a credit card and you provide them with an allowance everyweek. You have to pay what ever they charge on the credit card although you can do it in the future. You decide to cut the allowance by 25%, but do not limit what they charge to the credit card, which they use to support the spending habits they had before. After two years, they have a credit card debt of $2000 dollars, plus interest. Which is the amount you "saved" by cutting their allowance over that time. Was the allowance cut "free" or did you just postpone the paying of it untill later.
    Wow. I don't know if you meant to do it or not. If not, you've stumbled upon a brilliant analogy for what's happening in Washington--a bunch of children with a credit card that we're responsible for paying the bill on. Nice.

    So, using your analogy, is the problem that your children's allowance is too small? Or is it that they spend every dime they can possibly can and then come back for more?

  6. #216
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Really I would never have know, please great one tell me the difference between a deficit and debt, when does a deficit turn into debt?.
    Sorry, but I thought the concept of speed and distance was a simple concept that you could understand. Deficit is a rate, specifically the rate of increase in debt and/or depletion of savings which is not the same as debt, and it will never turn into debt. If you cut the budget, the deficit goes away but the debt remains. Like speed, if you want to stop increasing the debt, you have to take your foot off the gas and apply the brake.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The costs are in the government spending, if the government is spending more then it is getting in revenues, it is just delaying taxes to a future date. Those taxes will have to be paid for by the taxpayer. Which means that a tax cut that results in a deficit which increases the debt has a direct cost, it is not free. The tax payer will have to pay taxes in order to pay for the debt the government incurred. Not a hard concept if one has any financial sense.
    No it might be neutral in terms of cost to the taxpayer overall. If the tax increase is used exclusively to eliminate the deficit and lower debt, it is not increasing the cost to the taxpayer. If it is used to fund new government programs then it is an increased cost to the taxpayer.


    Lets use some simple concepts to ensure you can understand them

    Publically funded education. It helps to ensure a fairly well educated populace that will generally increase the economic potential of the population as a whole. A well educated workforce generally is more productive and generally helps the economy expand and grow especially compared to countries with poorly educated workforces. If a tax cut resulted in severe cuts to publically funded education, the number of people receiving a quality education will drop, reducing their economic potential and generally causing the economy to be smaller then it otherwise would be.

    A smaller economy, will generally result in less wealth being generated for the majority of people, ie an indirect opporutunity cost

    Another example would be freeways that might not be built or expanded resulting in people spending more times stuck in traffic, rather then doing productive activities
    If you assume that increased funding for education is the same thing as increasing the quality of education, then I understand why you would consider that an opportunity cost. Given the current state of our education system and the current level of funding, I don't understand why anyone would make that assumption....
    John Stossel's 'Stupid in America' - ABC News
    The Real Cost Of Public Schools - washingtonpost.com

    Building freeways, bridges, etc is actually a good example. Kudos for bringing it up. That can rightly be described as an investment, where the taxpayers actually get a return from their tax dollars. It's too bad the explosion in federal spending falls more in the wasteful category rather than the investment category.

    On the flip side, there's the opportunity costs associated with paying people not to work.

  7. #217
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by FluffyNinja View Post
    Indeed, but I'd settle for simply the reduced spending aspect
    We should repeal Article 1 Section 8

    (joke)
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    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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  8. #218
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Turtledude has repetitively argued that tax cuts cost nothing, aka they are free.

    So do you agree, that tax cuts cost nothing, that they are revenue neutral, that they are free?



    Tax cuts cost nothing and are free. The ****ty programs that are funded by said taxes are not free...


    What a dumb troll thread.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  9. #219
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Tax cuts cost nothing and are free. The ****ty programs that are funded by said taxes are not free...


    What a dumb troll thread.
    Tax cuts would only be free if the increased revenue resulting from increased economic activity recovered the relative cost of government. There can (in theory) be points along the tax spectrum that can in fact be "free". However, these parameters are limited at best, as exponential output growth is necessary to achieve such a "free" label.

    In reality, tax cuts are not free. Tax cuts in line with spending cuts are deficit neutral.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  10. #220
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Tax cuts cost nothing and are free. The ****ty programs that are funded by said taxes are not free...


    What a dumb troll thread.
    Then you can cut taxes to zero and have the entire government funded for free as well? What wonderfull magic
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
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