View Poll Results: Tax cuts cost nothing and are free

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  • No way.

    47 40.87%
  • Yes, they are free

    68 59.13%
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Thread: Tax cuts are free

  1. #191
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Costs are spending period

    The government supports its spending through taxes. Nearly all government revenue has to be raised through taxes. Simple enough concept

    A government that run a deficiet is spending more then it currently raises in tax revenue, Deficiets are debt, unless a institution defaults it has to pay back its debts

    Therefore a tax cut that results in a government deficit has a direct cost on the taxpayer as the taxpayer will have to pay down government deficits along with ongoing government spending. Which means in the most simplistic terms that even the most dense moron who does not know how to wipe his or her but

    A tax cut without corresponding spending cuts to ensure a balanced budget will have direct costs on the taxpayer. They will be delayed but the cost is still there. In additioin to the future taxes that will have to be paid is the interest on the debt ( an added cost) which will increase the amount of taxes to be paid in the future. Which means of course TAX CUTS WITHOUT CORRESPONDING SPENDING CUTS TO RESULT IN A BALANCED BUDGET OR SURPLUS DOES CAUSE A DIRECT COST TO THE TAXPAYER, IN FUTURE TAXES AND IN INTEREST ON THE DEBT RESULTING FROM THE TAX CUT

    A tax cut may result in opportunity costs which are more indirect then the situation above.

    If you do not understand the situation above I suggest giving me all your money as you are too stupid to be trusted to control your retirement funds
    I always laugh at the suggestion that those of us who don't want tax hikes, don't need more nanny government and are in a position to be soaked even more by the government are somehow stupid because we tire of being told by others we have to pay more taxes.

    If you are such a fan of more taxes you need to step up and not only pay the same rate I pay but pay the same amount. Until then, I don't have any use for your "advice"

    I know when I pay more taxes or have money taken for the ponzi scheme known as social security that is a COST to me.



  2. #192
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I always laugh at the suggestion that those of us who don't want tax hikes, don't need more nanny government and are in a position to be soaked even more by the government are somehow stupid because we tire of being told by others we have to pay more taxes.

    If you are such a fan of more taxes you need to step up and not only pay the same rate I pay but pay the same amount. Until then, I don't have any use for your "advice"

    I know when I pay more taxes or have money taken for the ponzi scheme known as social security that is a COST to me.
    Where did I say you need to pay more taxes in my post?

    I said and I will put it in bold for the challenged

    A tax cut without a corresponding spending cut is not free It generally leads to a deficit which adds to the debt. Government debt has to be paid back by tax payers. A tax cut that results in a deficit is just DELAYED/POSTPONED taxes.


    Now please focus on the SPENDING cut portion of the post, it may be difficult to understand but I am sure you will get it eventually
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  3. #193
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by FederalRepublic View Post
    Did you think about this even a little bit while you were typing? I'm picturing a mental gearshift, brain sitting in neutral revving the engine, making a lot of noise and not going anywhere...

    Deficeits and debt are not the same. That's like saying speed and distance are the same.
    Really I would never have know, please great one tell me the difference between a deficit and debt, when does a deficit turn into debt?.


    The costs are in the government spending, if the government is spending more then it is getting in revenues, it is just delaying taxes to a future date. Those taxes will have to be paid for by the taxpayer. Which means that a tax cut that results in a deficit which increases the debt has a direct cost, it is not free. The tax payer will have to pay taxes in order to pay for the debt the government incurred. Not a hard concept if one has any financial sense.
    If a tax cut causes a direct cost to the tax payer, would you describe an increased income tax as an increase in the tax payer's income?
    No it might be neutral in terms of cost to the taxpayer overall. If the tax increase is used exclusively to eliminate the deficit and lower debt, it is not increasing the cost to the taxpayer. If it is used to fund new government programs then it is an increased cost to the taxpayer[/quote]

    Opportunity costs? I'm very interested to know what opportunity costs are incurred as a result of a tax cut...would you care to expand on that one?[/QUOTE]

    Lets use some simple concepts to ensure you can understand them

    Publically funded education. It helps to ensure a fairly well educated populace that will generally increase the economic potential of the population as a whole. A well educated workforce generally is more productive and generally helps the economy expand and grow especially compared to countries with poorly educated workforces. If a tax cut resulted in severe cuts to publically funded education, the number of people receiving a quality education will drop, reducing their economic potential and generally causing the economy to be smaller then it otherwise would be.

    A smaller economy, will generally result in less wealth being generated for the majority of people, ie an indirect opporutunity cost

    Another example would be freeways that might not be built or expanded resulting in people spending more times stuck in traffic, rather then doing productive activities
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  4. #194
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Therefore a tax cut that results in a government deficit...
    In the most simplistic terms that even the most dense moron who does not know how to wipe his or her butt should be able to understamd, no tax cut can do this, as to run a deficit, there must also be a decision to spend more revenue than is taken in.
    So... as no tax cut falls under your argument, tax cuts are not a cost.

  5. #195
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    In the most simplistic terms that even the most dense moron who does not know how to wipe his or her butt should be able to understamd, no tax cut can do this, as to run a deficit, there must also be a decision to spend more revenue than is taken in.
    So... as no tax cut falls under your argument, tax cuts are not a cost.
    Yes which is why I specifically said a tax cut without corresponding spending cuts is a cost, as in DELAYED taxes.

    Any deficit that is the result of a tax cut is a cost as the deficit/debt will have to be paid back by taxes.

    Government spending is not free, it has to be paid for through taxes, postponing paying taxes for immediate tax cuts will result in higher taxes later


    Lets use this as an analogy

    Your childern have a credit card and you provide them with an allowance everyweek. You have to pay what ever they charge on the credit card although you can do it in the future. You decide to cut the allowance by 25%, but do not limit what they charge to the credit card, which they use to support the spending habits they had before. After two years, they have a credit card debt of $2000 dollars, plus interest. Which is the amount you "saved" by cutting their allowance over that time. Was the allowance cut "free" or did you just postpone the paying of it untill later.
    Last edited by Lord Tammerlain; 09-26-10 at 08:39 PM.
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  6. #196
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Yes which is why I specifically said a tax cut without corresponding spending cuts is a cost, as in DELAYED taxes.
    So, as I said, the tax cut, alone, cannot cause the deficit. That means the tax cut, alone, cannot create a cost.
    If the question is "is there a cost to tax cuts", you cannot answer "yes".

  7. #197
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    So, as I said, the tax cut, alone, cannot cause the deficit. That means the tax cut, alone, cannot create a cost.
    If the question is "is there a cost to tax cuts", you cannot answer "yes".
    True I can not say that all tax cuts have a cost, only those that result in a deficit and increase government debt will have a cost.


    So if the government is running a surplus, and taxes are cut, resulting in a balanced or slight surplus that tax cut does not have a cost. But very few governments are in that situation
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  8. #198
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    True I can not say that all tax cuts have a cost, only those that result in a deficit and increase government debt will have a cost.
    Right - which cannot happen solely as a function of the tax cut, as there must be a conscious decision to spend in excess of revenue.
    So, NO tax cut -necessarily- results in a deficit, and so NO tax cut -necessarily- results in a cost.

  9. #199
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Where did I say you need to pay more taxes in my post?

    I said and I will put it in bold for the challenged

    A tax cut without a corresponding spending cut is not free It generally leads to a deficit which adds to the debt. Government debt has to be paid back by tax payers. A tax cut that results in a deficit is just DELAYED/POSTPONED taxes.


    Now please focus on the SPENDING cut portion of the post, it may be difficult to understand but I am sure you will get it eventually
    its funny-if we raise taxes the dems will say that justifies more spending. Dems have to keep spending our money to buy power. They have no interest in cutting spending because that cuts their ability to buy votes and the wealth and power that comes from winning elections. They want to jack up taxes on the rich to convince the slow-witted that they are actually trying to do something about the deficit without pissing off too many voters.

    Its a charade. And no, cutting taxes is not an expenditure no matter how many times you say it and not a cost.



  10. #200
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    Re: Tax cuts are free

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    True I can not say that all tax cuts have a cost, only those that result in a deficit and increase government debt will have a cost.


    So if the government is running a surplus, and taxes are cut, resulting in a balanced or slight surplus that tax cut does not have a cost. But very few governments are in that situation
    wait a minute a tax cut that causes the government to lose revenue is a cost sometimes and not a cost other times? That makes no sense. that's like saying if a company makes more profit paying for labor isn't a cost?



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